Jump to content
Chitin

Hudson & Brand: Shadows of the Past (Kickstarter)

Recommended Posts

Chitin
44 minutes ago, TheHistorian said:

My issue is with launching a new project while so much is incomplete. Finish most of this stuff up and come back to us in a few months with a new project. I'll be the first backer.


Will do. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PoC

This thread ended up as a topic at today's Cthulhu Breakfast Club (Patrons can hear it soon if you didn't get a chance to watch it live).

 

One analogy that came up was that Kickstarter is like a casino. You could win big, or lose your shirt – but in the end, the house always wins.

 

It seems @TheHistorian and @willmize still have a question outstanding for @StephanieMcAlea, but that question could also be aimed at Chaosium. They are the gatekeepers after all.

 

The KS is doing tremendously well. Funded in four hours and smashing through five stretch goals in a day, which again is a testament to the quality of the products when they do appear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
willmize
15 minutes ago, PoC said:

This thread ended up as a topic at today's Cthulhu Breakfast Club (Patrons can hear it soon if you didn't get a chance to watch it live).

 

One analogy that came up was that Kickstarter is like a casino. You could win big, or lose your shirt – but in the end, the house always wins.

 

It seems @TheHistorian and @willmize still have a question outstanding for @StephanieMcAlea, but that question could also be aimed at Chaosium. They are the gatekeepers after all.

 

The KS is doing tremendously well. Funded in four hours and smashing through five stretch goals in a day, which again is a testament to the quality of the products when they do appear.

 

I don't have a question, per se, just a bit of trepidation.

Is this chain of Kickstarters necessary from a cash flow perspective?

Is this current one going to be used to keep the boat afloat while past projects are finished?
Or are all finances siloed by project?

We live in a wonderful time to be a Call of C'thulhu fan, and Stygian Fox provides some of those abundance of riches, but the optics here are awful, when you're going back to the well for more water, when you haven't even emptied the buckets you have.

 

- Bill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TheHistorian
1 hour ago, PoC said:

One analogy that came up was that Kickstarter is like a casino. You could win big, or lose your shirt – but in the end, the house always wins.

 

When you win at a casino, you get paid, not told to wait for months/years, and asked to keep playing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Chitin
16 minutes ago, willmize said:

Is this chain of Kickstarters necessary from a cash flow perspective?

Is this current one going to be used to keep the boat afloat while past projects are finished?
Or are all finances siloed by project?


Even if I were in a position that allowed more than speculation on my part, I'm not able to answer the questions, nor, I'd think, would most private business owners (at least none that I've ever worked for). Granted, Kickstarter changes a lot when it comes to optics, as does social media, forums like this one, etc. And for the most part, I think they're good. At times, I know it can also cause additional stress to people (I know of one creator who has  joked as more than one Kickstarter wrapped up that it'll be his last one, as well as another who it actually was their last one despite them still creating).

All I can tell you is what has, basically, already been said - Stephanie brought a lot of people onboard since mid-December (that I'm aware of), in an effort to get the past due Kickstarters caught up. As Stephanie mentioned, she's changing from a sole proprietorship to an LLC (the American terms cause that's what I know them as) with an eye towards continuing with the forward momentum on these past products and in a more sustainable way. Rather than speculate about someone's business though, I'm going to try to get back to the topic title concerning this Kickstarter.

 

1 hour ago, PoC said:

The KS is doing tremendously well. Funded in four hours and smashing through five stretch goals in a day, which again is a testament to the quality of the products when they do appear.


Thank you. As I think I mentioned earlier, the integrity of the people Stephanie surrounds her and her company with definitely ensures that they're quality products (when they do appear). :) As for this one and it's Stretch Goals, we based it off what H&B 1 had, and work that was already being done, and then we set them at levels that we were comfortable would get unlocked (I'm thinking maybe too low, now, but it's all good). The scenarios, for instance - the authors all agreed to an April1 deadline, with one scenario completely done and edited already and others in various stages (even an un-hit Stretch Goal for a scenario is about 50% done, as we plan on hitting the Stretch Goals but even if not, the author was going to write it anyways because it's a story they want to tell). The plan is then April-May for editing, art, and, depending on a schedule, maybe cartography. Layout and proofreading after that and then we're releasing things early. And for those hesitant to back, again, I completely understand and you'll still be able to pick up a copy of everything at DriveTruRPG once backers all the backer rewards are shipped out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
willmize
15 minutes ago, Chitin said:

Even if I were in a position that allowed more than speculation on my part, I'm not able to answer the questions, nor, I'd think, would most private business owners (at least none that I've ever worked for). Granted, Kickstarter changes a lot when it comes to optics, as does social media, forums like this one, etc. And for the most part, I think they're good. At times, I know it can also cause additional stress to people (I know of one creator who has  joked as more than one Kickstarter wrapped up that it'll be his last one, as well as another who it actually was their last one despite them still creating).

All I can tell you is what has, basically, already been said - Stephanie brought a lot of people onboard since mid-December (that I'm aware of), in an effort to get the past due Kickstarters caught up. As Stephanie mentioned, she's changing from a sole proprietorship to an LLC (the American terms cause that's what I know them as) with an eye towards continuing with the forward momentum on these past products and in a more sustainable way. Rather than speculate about someone's business though, I'm going to try to get back to the topic title concerning this Kickstarter.

 

As always, thank you for your kind replies, I (and I am sure others on this board) appreciate them.

I wasn't really looking for specific answers to my questions, I was just thinking aloud and trying to come up with some sort of explanation as to why kickstarters are being started when there are others that need to be completed.

 

Folks will vote with their pocketbook, and it seems like this one will be a great success.

Gaslight is my favorite era for CoC, so I eagerly await this book when it is released.

Or, in a fit of FOMO, I will wait until 1 minute before the KS closes and back it.

Either of these is possible :)

 

- Bill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Chitin
16 minutes ago, willmize said:

Folks will vote with their pocketbook, and it seems like this one will be a great success.

Gaslight is my favorite era for CoC, so I eagerly await this book when it is released.

Or, in a fit of FOMO, I will wait until 1 minute before the KS closes and back it.

Either of these is possible :)


lol, I've been there with the Kickstarters and not backing then regretting it or backing last minute. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one like that at times. Either way, I think this one will be a lot of fun once it's all said and done (and, broken record time, again, we're working on fixing things so that our business model, as we see it, is aligned with what our customers want it to be).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
numtini
3 hours ago, willmize said:

Is this chain of Kickstarters necessary from a cash flow perspective?

Is this current one going to be used to keep the boat afloat while past projects are finished?
Or are all finances siloed by project?

 

Well, I think those questions are particularly important given that shipping of their last release, Fears, was dribbled out over a months-long period because, by their admission directly on KS, there was no money available to print and ship hardbacks. If you're talking about one project in a long string of consistent releases, that's one thing. But we're now talking about 4 projects released and 6 owed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Chitin
22 minutes ago, numtini said:

Well, I think those questions are particularly important given that shipping of their last release, Fears, was dribbled out over a months-long period because, by their admission directly on KS, there was no money available to print and ship hardbacks. If you're talking about one project in a long string of consistent releases, that's one thing. But we're now talking about 4 projects released and 6 owed.


Well, I think I already said I don't have answers to those questions nor do I care to speculate on it because it's not who I am as a person. Also stated, Stephanie brought a lot of people onboard to help get things caught up in December and made more changes in January because, regardless of why anything is behind, she's not happy with them being behind either. So, again, what I will say, is there are several people working hard at getting them caught up and delivered to the backers, and she's building out a consistent team to better ensure that projects moving forward deliver on time for her backers.

(And I hate to talk about it here as this is about Shadows of the Past, but Stephanie gave me access to post updates for several of the past due Kickstarters, which I did nearly immediately, and will continue to do very regularly until they are delivered to backers.)  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rayven

I honestly just wish I made more money at this point so I could back at a higher level and actually get some of the cooler swag and not just the basic level. :S

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Chad Out of Space

Particularly given the history of British brutality against the Ashanti, I'm wondering what sort of effort there was to employ sensitivity readers?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
StephanieMcAlea
1 hour ago, Chad Out of Space said:

Particularly given the history of British brutality against the Ashanti, I'm wondering what sort of effort there was to employ sensitivity readers?

 

Did you read the mentions of the Ashanti in the first book?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Chad Out of Space

I did not! Were there sensitivity efforts in the first book?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
StephanieMcAlea

Well, yes. I'll leave it to others to assuage (or possibly support) your concerns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Chad Out of Space

Happy to be assuaged. I missed H&B #1, so will purchase now and check it out! The promo copy on Shadows of the Past just raised some flags for me, with a pretty nostalgic view of colonialism and defense of an "empire" vs. Africans. If there were sensitivity efforts, a mention of that on the KS campaign might serve as a welcoming signal for people of color and those affected by that history. I have no doubt there's rich material to explore here, it's just such a fraught time and place.        

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Chitin
1 hour ago, Chad Out of Space said:

Particularly given the history of British brutality against the Ashanti, I'm wondering what sort of effort there was to employ sensitivity readers?


A lot of effort was and is still being given on this point. We're fully aware of the British treatment of the Ashanti and actively working on representing things fairly and with sensitivity. In addition to the authors being aware of this and that the Ashanti (even the cultists) aren't necessarily presented as the "bad guys," I also have a few specific people in mind that I'd love to have read it and advise on it, just due to their work on similar issues. (More on that, later, if they accept. If not, I'll find someone else.)

 

4 minutes ago, Chad Out of Space said:

If there were sensitivity efforts, a mention of that on the KS campaign might serve as a welcoming signal for people of color and those affected by that history. I have no doubt there's rich material to explore here, it's just such a fraught time and place.        

 

A very good point and I'll update the page with it today. Thank you for pointing this out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
StephanieMcAlea

While Hudson's attitudes and military past cannot be avoided, the mention of the King' nefarious cultist activities sees him overthrown by not only the British but also some Ashanti. Other aspects are left deliberately vague so each keeper can use or discard what they will. I will take efforts to avoid stereotypes, bigoted attitudes, and historical inaccuracy in all my books.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Chad Out of Space

That's very encouraging to hear. Thank you for addressing this. I'd approach this material very differently knowing there was sincere effort to consult and represent diverse perspectives.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
StephanieMcAlea
3 minutes ago, Chad Out of Space said:

That's very encouraging to hear. Thank you for addressing this. I'd approach this material very differently knowing there was sincere effort to consult and represent diverse perspectives.

 

I'll be honest, as a Welsh translesbian living in England diversity and honest treatment of others has ever been present in my mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Chad Out of Space

I'm very glad to hear that. I have no doubt about intention, but as I'm sure you're well aware, even with best intentions it's just not possible to see outside one's privileges accurately. Thank you for your response and thoughtfulness. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MOB

Chaosium holds Stygian Fox (and Steph) in the highest regard. We are fully confident in SF's ability and capacity to deliver on their commitments. 

 

MOB - Chaosium Inc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GBV

Would you and SF be willing to offer all of the backers some sort of discount if they fail to deliver this Kickstarter and all of their other currently on the go CoC Kickstarter's on time.

 

Were you equally as confident in Éditions Sans-Détour's ability and capacity to deliver on their commitments?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
StephanieMcAlea
1 hour ago, GBV said:

Would you and SF be willing to offer all of the backers some sort of discount if they fail to deliver this Kickstarter and all of their other currently on the go CoC Kickstarter's on time.

 

Were you equally as confident in Éditions Sans-Détour's ability and capacity to deliver on their commitments?  

 

OK, so I'm not entirely sure where all this has come from. Our Call of Cthulhu Kickstarters are either delivered or on their way. There are other Kickstarters from other publishers that are also way behind. I myself am waiting for them, but ours being late is primarily because there was just me organising everything as well as being on the creative end for a very long time. This has now changed as a few weeks ago. 

I understand that some are frustrated with our lack of progress in our other CoC projects but in comparison with Kickstarter projects as a whole they are not obscenely late. Furthermore, as this thread is about the next H&B book it seems a bit odd to raise questions of deadlines here. Aspirations will be done in the next week or so and that's FSLN done. Bear in mind that Aspirations is a FREE PDF for backers, I think any talk of that being late is a bit gauche. 

Chitin has given you info regarding the projects and yet some seem to have not taken it in. Are you off to other publishers, to their multi-man teams and saying "Is your next KS going to be late?"


As for "discount", no. Backers are already getting the book cheaper than sell through. There will be no offering of cheap PDFs from past campaigns either though some have asked for it because Backers themselves haven't liked that. I will though be giving a copy of H&B2 to all the backers of H&B at Curator level because they've had to wait the longest (all 12 of them). That is my choice.

I'm not sure why PoC decided to bring in Chaosium in but he did. How easily the Masks of Nyarlathotep Companion campaign is so quickly forgotten, something I initially drew FREE maps for.

 

No one can offer discounts but me. It is Stygian Fox's responsibility to try our damndest to get your book to you (if you have indeed backed any of our books and in a forum where we faced questions about sensitivity from someone who hadn't even read the first book, I'm less than sure).

It is my job to get your books to you.
It is Chaosium's job to kick my arse if I don't.
Kickstarter is not a store.

I'm extremely grateful for all those who have supported Stygian Fox in the past but this kind of discussion is not conducive to getting the job done. Now I can look an old mentor in the face and understand why he closed his games company.

Stephanie

 

ps- In reference to the SdT comment, I am not one penny behind on my licencing obligations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PoC
1 hour ago, StephanieMcAlea said:

I'm not sure why PoC decided to bring in Chaosium in but he did.

 

False assertion. I've had no dealings with Chaosium in this matter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
crazy_cat
59 minutes ago, PoC said:

False assertion. I've had no dealings with Chaosium in this matter.

 

@PoCI think Steph means mention Chaosium along Stygian Fox when discussing this Kickstarter - which you did in post 2 of this thread when speculating about the new Kickstarter policy about having multiple live campaigns.

 

Personally I think the post above from GBV is pretty rude, self entitled, and passive aggressive. If you don't like a Kickstarter, or don't trust the creator to deliver it on time or to your satisfaction, don't back it. Problem solved, no need to demand assurances from the IP licensor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sign in to comment.

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×