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jcfiala

Chaosium severs license with Sans-Détour

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andreroy

Interesting to see the French gaming forums, understandably quite abuzz with this news with the full range of emotion and some considering a class action against ESD. The lack of my comments from ESD is quite concerning though...not even  a brief statement since Chaosium's announcement. 

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GBSteve

I had an email from ESD about the situation. It was sent to all their crowdfunding customers present and past. I'm guessing, because I'm not a current customer. Here's a google translation.

 

Quote

Chaosium Inc., owner of the Call of Cthulhu role-playing system, did not wish to renew the license of Cthulhu's L'Appel by Sans-Détour, which has been operating and enriched by our company for 10 years. We are currently evaluating together the state of the royalties still due.

 

In accordance with the contract that binds us, we will put an end to the production and sale of Cthulhu's products. Our clients and the community will be informed about this calendar soon.

 

The construction of the Nyarlathotep Masks and Beast Day Campaign will be completed soon and ready for embarkation. The delay in this production has also hurt us, but we are ensuring that no one is harmed and that this campaign is well delivered. Moreover, in the interest of the fans and the respect of the contract, we exchange with Chaosium on this file.

 

In 10 years, Sans-Détour has raised the reputation of Cthulhu's Call to a level never before achieved. And above all we brought the same passion and expertise to all our other ranges and productions. Sans-Détour is known for that. We will continue to produce quality games and innovate constantly, thanks to the exceptional talents of the women and men of our teams, to the delight of the players and fans who support us.

 

Sans-Détour editions

 

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yockenthwaite

Thank you for posting that @GBSteve. I was just going to say that I didn't get any email, and I was a crowdfunding backer for Les Contrées du Rêve.

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Buchhalter

I have the same email as @GBSteve but I am on their mailing list.

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jcfiala

The transcript posted to this thread has very choppy English.  Is that normal for SD?

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Buchhalter

I think @GBSteve posted a Google translation of ESDs email which was in French.

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RogerBW

If someone would care to drop me a copy I'll be happy to translate.

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GBSteve

I could translate it too, but it wouldn't add anything much.

 

Quote

Chaosium Inc., propriétaire du système de jeu de rôle Call of Cthulhu, n’a pas souhaité renouveler la licence de L'Appel de Cthulhu par les éditions Sans-Détour, exploitée et enrichie par notre société depuis 10 ans. Nous évaluons actuellement ensemble l’état des royautés encore à devoir.

 

Dans le respect du contrat qui nous lie, nous mettrons un terme à la production et la vente des produits de gamme de L'Appel de Cthulhu. Nos clients et la communauté seront informés prochainement de ce calendrier.

 

La fabrication de la campagne des Masques de Nyarlathotep et duJour de la Bête sera bientôt terminée et prête à l'embarquement. Le retard de cette production nous a également porté préjudice, mais nous faisons en sorte que personne ne soit lésé et que cette campagne soit bien livrée. D'ailleurs, dans l'intérêt des fans et le respect du contrat, nous échangeons avec Chaosium sur ce dossier.

 

En 10 ans, Sans-Détour a porté la réputation de L'Appel de Cthulhu à un niveau jamais atteint auparavant. Et nous avons surtout apporté la même passion et la même expertise à toutes nos autres gammes et nombreuses productions. Sans -Détour est reconnu pour cela. Nous allons continuer à produire des jeux de qualité et à innover sans cesse, grâce aux talents exceptionnels des femmes et des hommes de nos équipes, pour le plus grand plaisir des joueurs et passionnés qui nous soutiennent.

 

Les éditions Sans-Détour

 

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jcfiala
13 minutes ago, Buchhalter said:

I think @GBSteve posted a Google translation of ESDs email which was in French.

 

Oh, that would make sense, then.  

 

I don't need a further translation - I can tease out the meaning, and after all I'm only a spectator here, I didn't back any of their ventures.

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GBSteve

It sounds like whatever the issues between ESD and Chaosium that they are attempting to do right by their customers.

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christian

Yes, but I find this quite disingenuous. Saying that they have "enriched" the licence for ten years, ie that they have made CoC more famous in France, etc, does not cut it. ESD stuff can be excellent, they have made great efforts in presenting great products with great art. But paying royalties... well, that's like the first rule, isn't it?

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MOB

A further statement about the cancellation of Éditions Sans-Détour's license for Call of Cthulhu.

 

It is deeply unfortunate that Éditions Sans-Détour has caused this problem for the Ulule backers of Masks of Nyarlathotep/Day of the Beast. Chaosium is making every effort to resolve the matter positively, but can only do so with the cooperation of Éditions Sans-Détour.

 

https://www.chaosium.com/blogfurther-statement-about-ditions-sansdtour

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Robin
On ‎13‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 20:57, christian said:

Yes, but I find this quite disingenuous. Saying that they have "enriched" the licence for ten years, ie that they have made CoC more famous in France, etc, does not cut it.

 

I'm assuming that's a translation issue.

 

Regards,

 

Robin

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nclarke

I might guess that Christian, being French, read the version in his own language and made his comment accordingly.

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andreroy
8 hours ago, Robin said:

 

I'm assuming that's a translation issue.

 

Regards,

 

Robin

 

8 hours ago, nclarke said:

I might guess that Christian, being French, read the version in his own language and made his comment accordingly.

 

Indeed. It's based on ESD's communication  they posted/sent is response to Chaosium announcement quoting from the first paragraph:

 

Quote

Chaosium Inc., propriétaire du système de jeu de rôle Call of Cthulhu, n’a pas souhaité renouveler la licence de L’Appel de Cthulhu par les éditions Sans-Détour, exploitée et enrichie par notre société depuis 10 ans. Nous évaluons actuellement ensemble l’état des royautés encore à devoir.

 

Translated as: "Chaosium Inc., owner of the Call of Cthulhu roleplaying system, did not wish to renew the licence for "L'Appel de Cthulhu" by the Éditions Sans-Détour, operated* and enriched* by our company for 10 years now. We are currently evaluating  together the royalties still owed."

 

[*Note: These 2 adjectives refers to the licence]

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GBSteve

Exploitée in this case means "operated by". They have certainly produced some top quality material. It's a shame they didn't pay their licence.

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Robin
3 hours ago, nclarke said:

I might guess that Christian, being French, read the version in his own language and made his comment accordingly.

 

I was unaware of Christian's nationality and assumed that his comments were based on the Google translation.

 

Regards,

 

Robin

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andreroy
4 hours ago, GBSteve said:

Exploitée in this case means "operated by". They have certainly produced some top quality material. It's a shame they didn't pay their licence.

 

That would indeed be a much better translation...I used to be better at translating on the fly.

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MOB

As previously announced Éditions Sans-Détour's license for Call of Cthulhu was not renewed after it expired in September of 2018. This was due to non-payment of royalties and other cardinal violations of the contract.

 

Chaosium has stated from the outset that we do not want ESD's failure to perform its contractual duties to result in Ulule.com backers for Masks/Day of the Beast not getting the product they have already paid for (although we ourselves have not been paid). In the absence of constructive assistance from ESD, this is our unilateral solution:

 

https://www.chaosium.com/blogchaosium-unilaterally-issues-limited-license-extension-so-ditions-sansdtour-can-fulfil-their-obligations-to-ululecom-backers/

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achab

Thanks to Chaosium for this move. I really hope you can get the money due to you, but whatever happens, you've certainly earned the trust and loyalty of the French CoC players, big time.

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MOB
On 14/12/2018 at 07:57, christian said:

Yes, but I find this quite disingenuous. Saying that they have "enriched" the licence for ten years, ie that they have made CoC more famous in France, etc, does not cut it. ESD stuff can be excellent, they have made great efforts in presenting great products with great art. But paying royalties... well, that's like the first rule, isn't it?

 

ESD has not paid us any royalties for the 4th quarter of 2016, nor for any of 2017 (including for the Masks/Day of the Beast crowdfunding campaign on Ulule), nor for any of 2018. Repeated requests for reports and payments made no difference in changing that. As we have stated publicly though, we have nothing but respect and admiration for the Call of Cthulhu creations ESD produced under license. That is one of the reasons we were exceptionally patient when sales reports or royalty payments weren't forthcoming, despite us asking for them. But when ESD's license was up for renewal in September of 2018 we finally had to say enough was enough.

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MOB

Please be advised we have told Éditions Sans-Détour to cease all presales of Les Masques de Nyarlathotep (Masks of Nyarlathotep) and Le Jour de la Bête (Day of the Beast) on their website.

 

Chaosium has already publicly assured existing backers of the Masks/Day of the Beast Ulule crowfunding campaign that ESD will not be prevented from fulfilling their obligations to them (although we ourselves have not been paid). Chaosium unilaterally extends this special limited license to those who have already unwittingly made a presale purchase from ESD. More details at the link:

 

https://www.chaosium.com/blogupdate-about-ditions-sansdtour-regarding-preorder-customers

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andreroy

Hmm, is it me or ESD is being willfully obtuse?

 

1) Sale and Presales are still possible for most of the 6th ed range and all of 7th ed range.

2) Yesterday, they announced the arrival of the last book of their 10th anniversary reprint (6th edition, on presale since March 2018)...which is still possible to order online.

3) Thursday, they announced an Open Door sales this Saturday with discounts on several books.

 

And this is second hand information, but at least one store is expending their new Cthulhu delivery Monday (last post on page 97: https://www.black-book-editions.fr/forums.php?topic_id=12066&nbp=98&nop=96 ) and Way of Gamer will also be there.

 

(https://m.facebook.com/EditionsSansDetour/photos/a.370107893013661/2485639601460469/?type=3&source=48)

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