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Kickstarter - Cthulhu Invictus 7th Edition

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hamster

Not sure how many have seen this one yet, but Golden Goblin's re envisioning of the Cthulhu Invictus setting for 7th Edition is now kickstarting until the Ides of March (15th).

 

Cthulhu Invictus 7th Edition

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Necrothesp

Yup. And they're charging more for shipping to the UK than the cost of the book!

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hamster

I know! But I can't miss out on this one!

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DadsAngry

Does anyone know if it's going to be hardback or softcover?

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CsabTheHun

This one's going to be an Amazon buy for me.

 

As much as I would love to support Oscar and GGP through the Kickstarter, $40 for shipping alone is quite unthinkable for me to fork out.

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hamster

This one's going to be an Amazon buy for me.

 

As much as I would love to support Oscar and GGP through the Kickstarter, $40 for shipping alone is quite unthinkable for me to fork out.

 

But will it end up on Amazon?

 

Past Golden Goblin releases (I'm thinking especially about Tales of the Caribbean) seem to have only been available through their website and haven't turned up through normal distribution channels in the UK/Europe.

 

I've not even been able to find them on the Chaosium site, as they have slightly friendlier overseas shipping.....

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carnage_lee

The postage fee was a shock, then I looked into it a little bit.

 

I backed both 'Tales of The Caribbean' and 'Heroes of Red Hook' at soft-cover book levels and in both cases postal charges were $20 to the UK. The actual cost of postage on each envelope was $22.50 (USPS First-Class Package International Service (I think)) and each of those packages weighed in at around 16oz. So in those cases GGP underestimated the costs - doubly so as Kickstarter and other charges come off of the value of the whole pledge(s) - so GGP probably actually received $18 (from me) to cover the cost of posting each book.

 

I'd imagine that the new 'Cthulhu Invictus' book is quite a bit heftier than either of the books previously mentioned, pushing the weight up into the next pricing band (not over 48oz) which is $34.50 (to the UK). IIRC Kickstarter and payment fees can account for 10%of the total pleged; so $40 for postage looks about right - for packages sent singly using USPS.

 

The cost of international postage is high and is bound to put people off buying*, which is a real shame.

 

 

Edit: * of course I meant backing.

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trevlix

Oscar posted in the KS comments that it will be a soft cover. Also, on shipping he posted:

 

Shipping Issues - Last Kickstarter we budgeted $30 for international shipping. In many cases shipping was actually $32, and in some cases as much as $52 (usually to the UK). I do not know why the shipping rate went up, I only know that it did and I don't have any control over it. I am very sorry because we understand and agree that these rates are outrageous, but that's what they are.

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hamster

I'd be interested to know whether the conditions of the Golden Goblin license allows them to take advantage of the Chaosium EU warehouse...

 

After all, if I order a similar book from Chaosium I will pay between $10 and $15 for shipping......

 

If I was confident that Chaosium would be getting stock of the book I might think again about backing the Kickstarter.....

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Mysterioso

The cost of international postage is high and is bound to put people off buying, which is a real shame.

 

This is it in one sentence. 

 

If you want to see the thing produced, back at the very least at the PDF level, so that it actually raises the funds needed to produce it.

 

And don't whine about wanting a printed copy because you don't like PDFs. Without enough funds neither the PDF nor the book will come about.

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PoC

I'd be interested to know whether the conditions of the Golden Goblin license allows them to take advantage of the Chaosium EU warehouse...

I have no information on the matter, but I was wondering a similar thing. However I believe Chaosium books are printed in China and from there sent directly to the USA, UK and Australian warehouses, whereas I expect GGP print in the USA so cannot take advantage of that system.

 

I wonder what the difference in price would be getting the PDF and then locally POD printing it yourself vs. ordering the book straight from Golden Goblin?

 

I know some publishers (like Stygian Fox) make use of the DriveThruRPG system for printing.

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DadsAngry

I have no information on the matter, but I was wondering a similar thing. However I believe Chaosium books are printed in China and from there sent directly to the USA, UK and Australian warehouses, whereas I expect GGP print in the USA so cannot take advantage of that system.

 

I wonder what the difference in price would be getting the PDF and then locally POD printing it yourself vs. ordering the book straight from Golden Goblin?

 

I know some publishers (like Stygian Fox) make use of the DriveThruRPG system for printing.

 

The Tales of the Caribbean was printed in the USA so I would expect this one to print there as well. TotC had a POD option I wonder why that is not offered here?

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carnage_lee

I wonder what the difference in price would be getting the PDF and then locally POD printing it yourself vs. ordering the book straight from Golden Goblin?

 

I know some publishers (like Stygian Fox) make use of the DriveThruRPG system for printing.

 

I was very happy with my copy of 'The Arkham Gazette' that was printed via DriveThruRPG which I received a week or so ago. This was the first time in quite a while that I had used a POD service and I'd definitely use it again.

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nclarke

The POD option may have been a bit of a stretch in terms of layout as no doubt the 'normal' printer and the POD printer (Lightning Source for DTRPG) have differing requirements possibly meaning double the layout work. I'll get the pdf and if I want a POD copy use Lulu as they do a good job and print in the UK AFAIK. I did that for Convicts and Cthulhu before the POD option was offered and the book looks great with only some slight cover imperfections where I had to stitch the front and back covers together for the Lulu template.

 

As Carnage Lee asserts above the Arkham Gaxette POD is a very nice example of a POD product that looks good and works to avoid the shipping issue.

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neorxnawang

At SF we use DriveThru/Lightning Source POD, period. Pros and cons.

 

Advantages:

1. We don't have to do any shipping or mailing; they do it. It's just data input.

2. MOST (but not all) places a typical book will ship for $6-$10 including US and EU. Even AUS isn't horrible.

See: http://support.drivethrurpg.com/hc/en-us/articles/209936893-Estimated-Shipping-Costs-For-Printed-Products

3. There are still some exceptions (Brazil and its antiquated postal system that basically requires FedEx at stupid prices), even with DTRPG. (Yeah, Luciano, I went there). I comped Luciano in Brazil a hardcover so he could write a review and it set me back $100.

4. The $6-$10 shipping range gives people some pause but if you want it super fast, double up and go express.

 

Disadvantages:

1. LightningSource customer service not the easiest to sort in terms of proofs and corrections.

2. There is some fiddling that has to be done with layout.

3. Strictly books. No addons like GGP likes to include. So, for example, while we'd like to do posters of some of the splash pages in FSLN and sell them, we can't without opening up a whole other distribution channel

 

Wash:

1. Some people still kvetch about the postage either way, its just a smaller set.

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nclarke

I don't mind $6-10 shipping but the USPS $30-40 really get's my goat as it's often at least or even more than the cost of the book. Using DTRPG POD I can get a US KS hard copy book in the UK without the extra cost of transatlantic shipping.

 

I've found that getting a book uploaded and print ready is often as easy as stripping DTRPG's watermarking out and cutting and pasting the cover to suit the cover template in Lulu. Not such cheap shipping but quality is good and their discounts happen frequently enough to make stuff a little cheaper.

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rmeints

Chaosium used to sell licensee publications on our website because we had license agreements wherein the licensee would pay their royalty with printed product instead of cash. 

 

Chaosium no longer has license deals structured like that. Over time it was proven that neither the licensee nor Chaosium found it easier or more beneficial than a simple monetary payment.

 

Thus far, none of our licensees has asked us to sell their products via our website through some sort of distribution deal. While we are not against that in principle, the licensee would have to ship their product to all three of our warehouses at their expense, which is not a cheap thing to do at low volumes of books. Not having the books in all three of our warehouses, such as only having the book in our US warehouse, isn't worth it for us.

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Hypnotoad

I don't mind $6-10 shipping but the USPS $30-40 really get's my goat as it's often at least or even more than the cost of the book. Using DTRPG POD I can get a US KS hard copy book in the UK without the extra cost of transatlantic shipping.

 

I've found that getting a book uploaded and print ready is often as easy as stripping DTRPG's watermarking out and cutting and pasting the cover to suit the cover template in Lulu. Not such cheap shipping but quality is good and their discounts happen frequently enough to make stuff a little cheaper.

 

If I try to buy something from the Golden Goblin Press store...it reach 300$ shipping cost to Italy.

 

This is insane. And probably an error (I hope).

 

By the way in the GGP kickstarters the shipping cost to Europe (Europe, not Cile or India) is out of control and really too high.

 

It seems that they don't consider the market outside the USA.

 

I'm sure they have their reasons.

 

I have my reasons too and I'm sorry, but I won't buy anything from them.

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DadsAngry

From the responses here it looks like GGP should look into doing a second print run in the U.K. or Europe, assuming shipping is more reasonable from country to country. Set it up as another kickstarter for a special europe printing. It either will have enough backers to fund or it won't. Either way GGP will get a better understanding of the european marketplace for this niche product line.

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AlexK

The Tales of the Caribbean was printed in the USA so I would expect this one to print there as well. TotC had a POD option I wonder why that is not offered here?

 

I backed TotC at the PoD level, and while the PDF and hard copies were sorted last year the PoD rewards have yet to be made available. Reading between the lines of Oscar's KS updates I suspect doing the PoD thing was a lot more hassle than they expected. Additionally, although PoD was an option, the cost of that level on the KS was higher than the regular printed book.

 

US postage to overseas addresses shot up massively a few years ago, Golden Goblin can't be expected to eat that cost themselves, if anyone's deserves our ire it's the USPS.

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PoC

As someone who has also run a (smaller/larger/smaller) mail order business over the years I can fully sympathise with the problem of postage costs. Certainly for the smaller vendor there is no bulk mail contract reducing costs through shear volume - it's often simply what the Post Office counter tells you it is - and it's often a *lot* internationally.

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AlexK

Also, having just checked the KS page for the Tales of the Caribbean project to ensure my claim about the PoD version being more than the regular printed one wasn't a flagrant lie (it wasn't), I also noticed that out of 495 backers only 14 of them opted for the PoD version. So, from GGP's perspective it probably looks like it really isn't worth the hassle.

 

And to put the $40 postage into perspective (for UK people), the book isn't due until October. $40 equates to about £30. That's about the cost of a pub meal for two, with a drink, but without a tip. I'm sure we can all face missing out on one helping of fish and chips and a pint of Old Scrote Gargler in the next eight months if we really love Cthulhu Invictus.  :mrgreen:

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Robin

I backed Tales of the Caribbean, and at the time I posted here saying postage be damned. This time I very, very reluctantly have to decline.

 

I don't blame GGP for the decisions it has to make. GGP doesn't set international postage charges. However, I would respectfully and hopefully ask that it considers PoD in future. I've bought a fair bit of stuff PoD from DriveThru (and from other Kickstarters) and I've been entirely happy with the products.

 

Regards,

 

Robin

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yockenthwaite

I've now backed at the newly added PDF level that includes all stretch goals and allows add ons. I couldn't justify backing at physical for $80 including postage. But I'm happy with my new $25 pledge.

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cloud64

I'm going to sound a bit mean here, which isn't my intention, but I do hold GGP at fault over this. I have purchased quite a few board game Kickstarters, some from US producers, and none have been anywhere near the postage GGP are asking for. There are ways of managing the shipping and getting a reasonable price, even for game-sized, weighty items. It seems that the problem is that these books will be posted directly from the US, which is getting a reputation as a postage blackhole.

 

Anyway, I am looking forward to getting the digital version of what looks to be a great product, but it's disappointing that I can't justify the cost of the printed version.

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