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Delta Green Kickstarter launched

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Azimuth

Realistically, I can't contemplate getting the hardbacks on this kickstarter, as much as I'd like to - the extra upgrades and stretch goal uplifts and shipping-at-a-later-date are just punishing. I've also been supporting Dennis's Patreon, and I think I'm seeing stuff he's done there appear as stretch goals in the kickstarter (hopefully in an expanded form) - so feel I've already been paying for some of this.

 

Will see how I feel, but probably only looking at getting the PDF versions.

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Shimmin Beg

A recent Cthulhu Breakfast Club also touches on the difficulties of international publication, although on the topic of graphic novels rather than games.

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PoC

We talk about Chris's failed Kickstarter for Transreality 2: New Worlds in the September 2015 edition of CBC, (why it didn't make it, how that might be fixed if it were to run again). However even when successful, Kickstarters have a very difficult time with international shipping.

 

 
There may be possible solutions for some,  but not for others.

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yockenthwaite

Ok I'm in. The unspecified and high shipping costs don't make the print books viable for me, as an international backer. But I've just been able to nab a $25 Night at the Opera slot which was freed up, which gets me the basic book PDF and another PDF of my choice. I'm fancying Impossible Landscapes or the Case Officer's Handbook. Good price anyway, for just what I want. I don't want all the PDF stuff enough to plump for the $80 pledge level.

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GBSteve

I've decided to skip this KS. I'm not particularly interested in any of the stretch goals or add-ons or whatever, and $50 + considerable shipping ($40?) seems rather steep for a 160 p. full-color hardcover. I think it'll be a lot cheaper for me to get it through regular retail once it's out and I decide that I do want it, so there's no real advantage for me to backing the KS instead.

 

I'm with you. I'm interested in a couple of the add-in pdfs but I'm not keen on paying $70+ shipping for a $60 book. So I'll grab a couple of add-ins and wait for retail.

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rylehNC

I've also been supporting Dennis's Patreon, and I think I'm seeing stuff he's done there appear as stretch goals in the kickstarter (hopefully in an expanded form) - so feel I've already been paying for some of this.

Hopefully, this is a sign that most of the stretch goal material is well on the way to being ready. But assuming that many of the Patreon supporters would have backed this Kickstarter, I think your feeling is accurate. You did get to see it first, and hopefully derived reading and/or gaming pleasure from it before the rest of us.

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Azimuth

Hopefully, this is a sign that most of the stretch goal material is well on the way to being ready. But assuming that many of the Patreon supporters would have backed this Kickstarter, I think your feeling is accurate. You did get to see it first, and hopefully derived reading and/or gaming pleasure from it before the rest of us.

 

Oh, indeed - and I'm happy to support him through Patreon and I love the stuff he does; the downside is that some of the stretch goals / add-on rewards they've chosen to offer are just less enticing to Patreon backers; you're essentially cannibalising your own market a bit. Still, the kickstarter seems to be doing well.

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clockworkjoe

If you've been on fence about backing Delta Green, now is the time to check it out! We've just added a FREE Quickstart kit with a demo adventure and pregenerated characters: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects.../posts/1376137

I've also recorded an actual play podcast of the new Delta Green rules on RPPR Actual Play: http://actualplay.roleplayingpublicr...n-inheritance/

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Hypnotoad

If I back only for "The Fall of Delta Green"...published by Pelgrane Press...Pelgrane Pess is based in the Uk...so the shipping cost (from europe to europe) should be more affordable or not?

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FreddieF

If I back only for "The Fall of Delta Green"...published by Pelgrane Press...Pelgrane Pess is based in the Uk...so the shipping cost (from europe to europe) should be more affordable or not?

Arc Dream just confirmed in the comment thread on the Kickstarter today that they are dealing with the distribution of Fall of Delta Green to Kickstarter backers, not Pelgrane Press. As this means it is likely Fall will be distributed from the US to backers, I'd expect international shipping costs to come into play for this book as well as all the other DG physical rewards.

 

I'm in for some of the books (Case Officers Handbook and the screen), but I'm going mostly PDF for this Kickstarter. I'll be preordering Fall directly from Pelgrane when it is available to order to avoid having to pay extra money for shipping from the US on top of the book costs, since I know Pelgrane have a UK distributor for their webstore.

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Hypnotoad

Arc Dream just confirmed in the comment thread on the Kickstarter today that they are dealing with the distribution of Fall of Delta Green to Kickstarter backers, not Pelgrane Press. As this means it is likely Fall will be distributed from the US to backers, I'd expect international shipping costs to come into play for this book as well as all the other DG physical rewards.

 

I'm in for some of the books (Case Officers Handbook and the screen), but I'm going mostly PDF for this Kickstarter. I'll be preordering Fall directly from Pelgrance when it is available to order to avoid having to pay extra money for shipping from the US on top of the book costs, since I know Pelgrane have a UK distributor for their webstore.

 

Ok. Thanks.

 

I'll wait for the Pelgrane Store too.

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christian

The absence of clarification on international posting at this stage of the KS is a real problem

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FreddieF

International shipping is an issue for a lot of Kickstarters, and there is no hard fix for it. That said, some Kickstarters have done great with international shipping. The most impressed I've ever been was with Stone Meyer Game's Kickstarter for Euphoria - free shipping to US, Canada, And UK & Europe. I believed they used Amazon fulfilment. Oh, and that one delivered bang on time.

 

However, it took them some time to build up the international shipping network to get this all to work and the groundwork needs laying out in advance. I'd keep with the notion that international backers will be paying for additional shipping above the $10 included for each physical reward... I'm still hoping that Arc Dream will come up with something and have pledged in for physical rewards. However, my stance is that if nothing is forthcoming by the time the Kickstarter is ending, I'll probably drop my pledge back to just PDFs and then pick up physical books at the FLGS as they come out.

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FreddieF

For what it's worth, Arc Dream just updated their FAQ on international shipping. Still the same stance - $10 included in cost of each physical item, then after that it is the backer that covers additional shipping, plus any customs. Base prices on a 2lb book shipped USPS First Class.

 

This is fair enough, given that I wouldn't want Arc Dream paying out of pocket for shipping, which is hugely expensive to international backers. That said, it is pretty much a deal breaker in getting physical rewards in the UK. I'll probably wait to get them through my FLGS at retail.

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Azimuth

For what it's worth, Arc Dream just updated their FAQ on international shipping. Still the same stance - $10 included in cost of each physical item, then after that it is the backer that covers additional shipping, plus any customs. Base prices on a 2lb book shipped USPS First Class.

 

This is fair enough, given that I wouldn't want Arc Dream paying out of pocket for shipping, which is hugely expensive to international backers. That said, it is pretty much a deal breaker in getting physical rewards in the UK. I'll probably wait to get them through my FLGS at retail.

 

Yep - what irks me slightly is the way this Kickstarter is essentially trying to fund a whole product line, with $50 uplifts per hardback book, plus shipping (with the hints that 'they're gone for good' if stretch goals aren't met). If they reach all the stretch goals, that's a lot of money to drop on a lot of books simultaneously (if my calculations are correct and they reach the $260k stretch goal, that's an extra $170 before shipping for three new hardback books and a Case Officer upgrade, assuming you were backing at a 'hardback book' level). Perhaps they think most people will be happy with PDFs and that the hardbacks are 'luxury' items? Ultimately, though, that's too rich for my tastes and I don't have a reason to drop more than $80 on it (which, perhaps, is a good thing).

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FreddieF

Yep - what irks me slightly is the way this Kickstarter is essentially trying to fund a whole product line, with $50 uplifts per hardback book, plus shipping (with the hints that 'they're gone for good' if stretch goals aren't met). If they reach all the stretch goals, that's a lot of money to drop on a lot of books simultaneously (if my calculations are correct and they reach the $260k stretch goal, that's an extra $170 before shipping for three new hardback books and a Case Officer upgrade, assuming you were backing at a 'hardback book' level). Perhaps they think most people will be happy with PDFs and that the hardbacks are 'luxury' items? Ultimately, though, that's too rich for my tastes and I don't have a reason to drop more than $80 on it (which, perhaps, is a good thing).

My thoughts exactly. I'm holding out to see if something is sorted for international backers, but I've not much hope. I'm in for $145 at the moment (Hard Targets, plus CO Handbook upgrade and the GM screen), which is the top end of what I can afford. However, international shipping is a killer if it forces you to pay dalmost double the cost of the books. $80 for all the PDFs isn't too bad with what they have unlocked so far, and will get better with the other releases. I have a feeling I'll probably drop to this pledge level before the KS is over unless and shipping miracle happens...

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yockenthwaite

Well I would have liked to get a hardback of the Case Officer's Handbook, but if I do it will be through retail. I can't justify the unspecified shipping charges for this.

 

Having said that I am very glad I managed to nab one of the Night at the Opera slots, when it became briefly available. I've upgraded from that for $10 to get the Case Officer's Handbook PDF, and will now get the Agent's PDF thrown in as well, per today's update. And for my other included PDF I'm eyeing up one of the campaigns, assuming the funding goal is reached. All great value IMHO for $35.

 

But for the print books the shipping charges outside the US look horrific, especially because it's been said in one of the comments that the books will be sent out separately. Ouch re international shipping charges. At the moment backing the print copies overseas seems like writing a blank cheque.

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clockworkjoe

Hi everyone,

 

Keep in mind every print option for this Kickstarter includes a $10 shipping charge, which will be subtracted from any final shipping charges.

 

We want to ship books to everyone, but the logistics are very complex and uncertain for international orders. We will continue to look at possible options, including fulfillment houses. If we can nail down a reasonable international shipping rate, we will let everyone know as soon as possible. We understand how you feel and wish we could do more, but Arc Dream is a small operation in the grand scheme of things. There are limits to what we can do.

 

On a personal note, I have found PDFs easy to read and use in games with a decent sized tablet. It makes a world of difference, at least to me. 

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FreddieF

Hi everyone,

 

Keep in mind every print option for this Kickstarter includes a $10 shipping charge, which will be subtracted from any final shipping charges.

This is great and appreciated, and will cover shipping for US backers, but it is still only a third/fourth of the potential shipping charges for international backers. If I remember, this $10 is not a freebie and rolled into the pledge, but is on top of the RRP (i.e. the Agents Handbook will retail for $40, and the pledge is $50 = $40 + $10 shipping).

 

We want to ship books to everyone, but the logistics are very complex and uncertain for international orders. We will continue to look at possible options, including fulfillment houses. If we can nail down a reasonable international shipping rate, we will let everyone know as soon as possible. We understand how you feel and wish we could do more, but Arc Dream is a small operation in the grand scheme of things. There are limits to what we can do.

Totally understandable. I do hope you find some way to reduce international costs, but I want to state that I in no way ask for you to bend over backwards or put yourselves at financial risk to do so. In the same vein, I don't want to go overboard on physical copies when the shipping will come back to bite me later.

 

On another note - will the books be coming to game stores after the Kickstarter copies have been distributed. I really want to pick up physical books, and if I can't get them through the KS, then looking to my FLGS seems like the way to go. I know this doesn't help out with the fund raising, but I hope you appreciate where I'm coming from. Hopefully money raised in sales after the KS might drive further DG work outside of the Kickstarter?

 

On a personal note, I have found PDFs easy to read and use in games with a decent sized tablet. It makes a world of difference, at least to me.

I use PDFs for running games and taking to and from games - great portability and ease of use (especially when there are links and solid bookmarking thoughout). I've a 7" Nook HD, which has a great screen for reading them on. That said, nothing beats sitting down with a physical book. And what am I going to drop on the table when I need a good jump scare?

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Taavi

There may be remailing services which will ship more cheaply from the US than US Post. Australia has an official one, Shopmate, and several private ones.

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rcaugust

It must be said, I wasn't convinced by this KS at all; the reward levels are odd w/r/t which stretch goals you get at which level, plus the shipping thing...it didn't feel reliable in the way that the latest Numenera one did. You knew what you were getting and when. This one less so. I've just gone for Fall of DG- because I love Ken Hite. I'd have pledged more if I had been more sold on the KS itself I think.

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tgaitskell

I will back this kickstarter for the physical books, even though i'm in the UK, and damn the postage. What I'd appreciate would be a little clarity on some of the myriad .PDF only items that are being unlocked. I really do not care about .PDF's... OK, I'll be one with the last century, but please present me with at least the opportunity of physical copies, even if print by demand later on. Indeed, digital folks... I hope you're looking forward to the .PDF Keeper's Screen... Hmmm.

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ced1106

International shipping is an issue for a lot of Kickstarters, and there is no hard fix for it. That said, some Kickstarters have done great with international shipping. The most impressed I've ever been was with Stone Meyer Game's Kickstarter for Euphoria - free shipping to US, Canada, And UK & Europe. I believed they used Amazon fulfilment. Oh, and that one delivered bang on time.

 

IIRC, Many fulfillment centers charge a "per item" fee (eg. $1 per item) which makes "a la carte" fulfillment particularly expensive (eg. Reaper's Bones miniatures). Euphoria actually wasn't good for other internationals: "Also, there was no way to receive an individual game if you weren’t in the US, Canada, or the EU. I did that because shipping international packages is something we have to do by hand, and it’s an arduous, slow, and expensive process.http://stonemaiergames.com/5-kickstarter-mistakes-we-made-on-euphoria-that-you-can-avoid-and-1-regret/

 

As for a whole product line, KS is not a store. It's pretty standard for a KS to offer the base product and supplements or expansions in one swell foop during a KS because it's less expensive for the *creator* to do this, rather than funding each product individually. It's definitely asking a lot from the backers, and some retailers, of course, are not happy seeing themselves cut out of the purchase. But, speaking of retailers, it's perhaps not a bad thing for the creator if you decide to purchase retail. That shows the KS as a marketing tool *is* working to promote sales at the retail level, where ultimately the creator wants to sell the product!

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christian

I feel like an absolute idiot saying this again and again. But I'll give it another try

 

I have zilch affiliation with Sans Detour but I know Christian Grussi and I'm a fan of what they put out. I have written prefaces for BTMOM and an obituary-preface-elegy for Keith Herber on Spawn of Azatoth, but I don't work for them.

When Sandy Petersen was looking for somebody to take care of international shipping from inside Europe, I put him in contact with them and it worked.

When Chaosium needed someone to ship HOTOE inside Europe, Sans Detour did a sterling job. ( I don't remember if I was in anyway involved)

When my friend Osk needed someone to ship De Horrore Cosmico inside Europe, I acted again as a go-between and they did a great job

 

Sans Detour have translated many DG books already. I don't think that taking care of international postage for DG KS would be out of their league. But a fortnight into the KS, with so much hanging in the balance, no word on whether this can happen, or even whether it's been tried. i'm not ranting for the sake of ranting, I'm ranting because I'd like to help.

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clockworkjoe

On another note - will the books be coming to game stores after the Kickstarter copies have been distributed. I really want to pick up physical books, and if I can't get them through the KS, then looking to my FLGS seems like the way to go. I know this doesn't help out with the fund raising, but I hope you appreciate where I'm coming from. Hopefully money raised in sales after the KS might drive further DG work outside of the Kickstarter?

 

The books will be distributed to game stores and made available for sale online.

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