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G.Roby

ToC 2nd Edition Rulebook?

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G.Roby

Hi everyone!

I'm just wondering if (and when) there will be a 2nd Edition of the ToC Hardcover.

 

If not: any Ideas what should be added to the rulebook?

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PelgranePress

There will be at some time. I know we'll be doing some reorganisation and adding more GUMSHOE advice, plus adding a new adventure. I certainly interested in reading what others think.

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G.Roby

but nothing planned for 2011/2012 .. so ideas are welcome?

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AndrewTBP

It would be nice to have:

1. the "new rules" from the various supplements rolled into a 2nd edition

2. all text and examples given a thorough editing

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OlderNick

3. The rules written from the perspective of either Pulp or Purist with the other mode as an "option", instead of the current sort of middle ground that will rarely see actual use.

4. Clearer sanity rules, though I believe the above will solve this.

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GBSteve

Simon has talked, in Page XX, about Esoterrorists 2.0 for which you can get a sneaky peek if you sign up for one of the playtests (I'm not sure if they're still open). I think this collects together some of the distributed GUMSHOE wisdom.

 

In ToC2, I'd like to see the magic system included in the main rules and more GM advice about how GUMSHOE works, including different ways of running it. In fact, I could see a GM supplement being a useful addition to the range.

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Karloff
In ToC2, I'd like to see the magic system included in the main rules and more GM advice about how GUMSHOE works, including different ways of running it. In fact, I could see a GM supplement being a useful addition to the range.

 

You haven't got this, then? I find it handy.

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GBSteve

I'm in it (Prof Dempsey). But there are more things that have been written since then, including you examples and mine of scenario writing.

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WiseWolf

I will like a separate Chapter for rules for Pulp and rules for Purist modes. The way it is now, is confusing sometimes.

 

Also, improved combat rules.

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Krypter

Integrated magic rules, definitely, plus a better explanation of combat. Add all the new skills and rules found in supplements (eg, megalopolisomancy, The Knowledge, etc.).

 

Also, a pet peeve of mine is the incredibly loose leading of the stat blocks. Could you tighten those up so the lines are closer? It would save oodles of space. Thanks.

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AndrewTBP

I've just found the Trail of Cthulhu errata thread on the old Pelgrane Press Forum, so that partially obviates my next suggestion. ;)

http://www.dyingearth.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=412

The errata should be collected and made available for download on the Trail of Cthulhu resources page.

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Eynowd
including you examples and mine of scenario writing.

 

Are these things online? If so, any chance of getting links to them please?

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GBSteve

Follow the link in Karloff's sig to his great blog. Mine are buried somewhere in LJ.

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The_Tatterdemalion_King
Integrated magic rules, definitely, plus a better explanation of combat. Add all the new skills and rules found in supplements (eg, megalopolisomancy, The Knowledge, etc.).

 

There's a risk of bloat when stuff like that is pulled in sans context... cf. the CoC 6th ed spell list. If they can be tied to the campaign frames, though, great. (Ex. some of the crunchier combat rules in the Project Covenant section). In a similar vein, expanded guidelines or worked examples for adjusting rules for specific campaign frames would be nice.

 

Hell, I'd say you'd want either an appendix or at least one campaign frame that's nominally set in the modern day, just to say up front how little needs to be changed to run said campaign.

 

Also, a pet peeve of mine is the incredibly loose leading of the stat blocks. Could you tighten those up so the lines are closer? It would save oodles of space. Thanks.

 

Statblock designs are a whole barrel of wormy... monkeys...

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Blackburn

Wouldn't Esoterrorists and Fear Itself count as modern campaign frames? Adding a modern one into Trail would just end up competing against those.

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The_Tatterdemalion_King

Wouldn't Esoterrorists and Fear Itself count as modern campaign frames? Adding a modern one into Trail would just end up competing against those.

Two pages for a campaign frame in the ToC core book to sell you on buying Esoterrorists sourcebooks... ; )

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Blackburn

I have to admit that I don't think it follows that easily. It was easier to justify getting Bookhounds, since it built directly off Trail, whereas Esoterrorists means you're buying a lot of the same basic materials all over. I think that a direction to check out Esoterrorists for a modern setting would cover the same idea without causing any issues about competing.

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The_Tatterdemalion_King

I have to admit that I don't think it follows that easily. It was easier to justify getting Bookhounds, since it built directly off Trail, whereas Esoterrorists means you're buying a lot of the same basic materials all over. I think that a direction to check out Esoterrorists for a modern setting would cover the same idea without causing any issues about competing.

A sample modern campaign doesn't have to be secret agents versus the Mythos, though.

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GBSteve

No, it could even be police v Mythos.

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Justin F

Or internet conspiracy nuts vs the mythos?

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Blackburn
A sample modern campaign doesn't have to be secret agents versus the Mythos, though.

 

True, but Pelgrane already has Fear Itself.

 

Is it really necessary to use some of the limited pages with which to update ToC in order to add in a fifth modern GUMSHOE settings that you can insert the Mythos into when you're writing a period book? And why use the pages for modern (considering that they have tons of material out for that) when they could use it to add older times, such as they did in Hellfire.

 

Especially since time period is less a campaign frame and more of a setting. There's no reason that Bookhounds, Project Covenant and the Armitage Inquiry can't work in modern day. And there's also the issue that adding a different time period as a campaign frame since it means you're now advocating a new time period and then forgetting to give any equipment, vehicles or weapons for that period.

 

No, it could even be police v Mythos.

 

Arkham Detective Tales needs to have a more fleshed out campaign frame.

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Stainless
It would be nice to have:

1. the "new rules" from the various supplements rolled into a 2nd edition

2. all text and examples given a thorough editing

 

+100 to this

 

3. restructure the books somewhat (mainly the rules) to make it flow more logically.

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Winter Smoke
+100 to this

 

3. restructure the books somewhat (mainly the rules) to make it flow more logically.

 

Definitely agree there. I'm really new to gaming and I read the book for the first time quite recently. There are a few places where I got mixed up due to structure, for example, I was quite confused when I was reading the investgator occupations section where is was referring to including any extra investigative or personal abilities. I kept flipping back and forth between those pages and the character sheet trying to figure out what categories fell into which camp. 15 pages of frustration later I find a list detailing which categories of abilities fall into which camp. This sort of stuff may be obvious to experienced RPG players but to new players, it seems counter-intuitive to have examples before rules.

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Stainless
Definitely agree there. I'm really new to gaming and I read the book for the first time quite recently. There are a few places where I got mixed up due to structure, for example, I was quite confused when I was reading the investgator occupations section where is was referring to including any extra investigative or personal abilities. I kept flipping back and forth between those pages and the character sheet trying to figure out what categories fell into which camp. 15 pages of frustration later I find a list detailing which categories of abilities fall into which camp. This sort of stuff may be obvious to experienced RPG players but to new players, it seems counter-intuitive to have examples before rules.

 

Exactly. They have fallen for the age old trap in writing, which is not putting yourself in your reader's shoes. I see it all the time with student essays. Granted, it's easy when you know something inside out to forget what it was like when you didn't know anything about it, and it must be worse for game creators, since that material didn't exist until they wrote it! Your example is just one that I have suffered from also.

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Justin F

Have to agree with all of this.

 

1. the "new rules" from the various supplements rolled into a 2nd edition

 

Yes, and including the 'Crunchy Combat rules' from the Esoterror Fact Book, as options. These are a great solution to one quite common criticism of Trail from some keepers.

 

2. all text and examples given a thorough editing
3. restructure the books somewhat (mainly the rules) to make it flow more logically.

 

I found the writing and the ideas going into it to be excellent. However I had to read the book twice before I understood character creation, ability tests and investigative spends. So a restructure/edit could be very helpful.

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