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doccthulhu

Putting Out a Feeler

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Cousteau

.pdf is no good. One guy or gal can simply print it and then scan it again to go around the copy protection. Loss of money for the artists and publishers etc.

 

And as so many has already said, books have value in themselves. They look nice, they smell, you can touch them, they help towards deforestation (trees are actually Dark Young ones anyway, so good riddance). It's simply not a good idea to sit with a lap-top during sessions to check out some paragraph, it kills the mood.

 

"So, you want to interview the Doctor? Hadn't thought of that possibility, just let me boot my huge power desktop pc. WRRRRROOOOOOOUUM!"

 

On second thought, that could be quite scary. ;)

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CAThompson

I hate to bust up the party, but if you were to find a site where downloades re to be found and were to look for .pdfs of books that may or may not involve Cthulhu, calls or roleplaying, you'll find quite a few that never officially made .pdf lurking around.

 

To an extent I think that piracy is just a fact of life until it becomes legal to hunt and kill people who pirate media.

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Frederyck
I hate to bust up the party, but if you were to find a site where downloades re to be found and were to look for .pdfs of books that may or may not involve Cthulhu, calls or roleplaying, you'll find quite a few that never officially made .pdf lurking around.

 

You will find boatloads of them. But as an earlier poster said - the quality of them are mostly very bad. Effort is the greatest enemy of piracy, and scanning books well is a great effort. I believe that anyone who is satisfied with the pdf-dross available on p*****bay etc probably wouldn't buy the books anyway, even if they weren't available for download.

 

Now, I'd buy anything CoC-related printed stuff with Keith Herber's name on it. But buying pdfs of the same? Not very likely at all.

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AdamAstonbury

Count me in as another in the 'interested' camp. I have a lot of love / respect for Mr Herber's work.

 

It might even motivate me to get off my arse and write/submit something for publication (ermmm...to date I've written one 'Shotgun Scenario' for Delta Green).....

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rylehNC
.pdf is no good. One guy or gal can simply print it and then scan it again to go around the copy protection. Loss of money for the artists and publishers etc.

 

I love CoC, but can't accept that the fanbase is so large that there are bales of money endangered by pdf piracy of its books. Several publishers have come round from the anti-pdf position without too many complaints. And the ransom model would assuage these complaints with ease.

 

I'm not arguing against printed material, mind you; just stating that the problems with pdf are not as bad as you might expect. It should be an option if only for those European players affected by high shipping costs.

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Neurook

I would much rather buy a physical book. Digital information wants to be free, in both senses of the word.

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alewar
A couple reasons I wouldn't go pdf:

 

What about piracy? Can't a person buy a pdf, and then make endless copies? (I'm not really sure).

 

Doc

 

you shouldn't care about piracy. every single cthulhu book you write will end up as a high quality scanned PDF in eMule/Bittorrent anyways. trying to avoid this is plain idiotic.

 

What most of us do before buying the book is to download it from internet, if the book is any good and available, we buy it. We love buying good supplements and collecting them.

 

What you should do, apart from printing the books, is put your material online, as low quality PDFs with some restricted Creative Commons license. In this way people can see how cool your book are before buying them, or if they don't have the money they can obtain them in a "legal" way, and believe me, if the material is good, they will buy them some day.

 

Really guys, stop fighting "piracy" and take advantage of the new ways.

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Evans

I still think printing them in book format is a better idea. There's a feeling of relibailty about a book which computer files just do'nt have.

 

Though a freewebs page for some of the big prodjects would allways be nice.

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Cousteau

Lovecraft's protagonists loved books...computers are utterly anti-Lovecraftian. ;)

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Evans

I agree, in situations like this books are best. They are harder to lose and more easisly acessable.

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DrJest

I prefer books, but pdfs are great for handouts, because I have a tendency to misplace handouts from adventures that I ran years ago. I still own The Trail of Tsathogghua, but I when I wanted to re-run the excellent Haunted House scenario, I ended up buying the pdf version from drivethru because those handouts are not re-printed within the scenario itself.

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tlynch999

Two points:

 

1) One of those who made Cthulhu great asks if there are interested people? Countmeincountmeincountmein! No writing credits to date, but I have hundreds (maybe not, but almost) *started* in various states of incompleteness.

 

2) How about physical books (possibly a set of limited run/available by pre-order a la DG:EO...that worked well, I think), and a web site where the handouts can be downloaded.

 

3) (I never could count) I could help with the web site too... I started a great one years ago, and will finish it...one day.

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The_Tatterdemalion_King

I'd be interested in doing art for it.

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Evans

Yes a freewebs hand out resource would work rather well.

 

Out of interest do you have any links to your King?

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Gallowglass
A couple reasons I wouldn't go pdf:

 

What about piracy? Can't a person buy a pdf, and then make endless copies? (I'm not really sure).

 

Doc

 

you shouldn't care about piracy. every single cthulhu book you write will end up as a high quality scanned PDF in eMule/Bittorrent anyways. trying to avoid this is plain idiotic.

 

What most of us do before buying the book is to download it from internet, if the book is any good and available, we buy it.

 

Please don't accuse other posters of deliberately breaching copyright law.

 

NDM

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alewar

Please don't accuse other posters of deliberately breaching copyright law.

 

NDM

 

of course not!, surely the guys seeding the 2gb torrent containing almost everything of call of cthulhu published to date have never posted here and are not interested in the game at all. and if you in particular never downloaded anything from the internet that is consider ilegal in the US, than you are pretty weird...

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Evans

I'm just going to remain in blissful ignorance on who Torrent files work.

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Tigger_MK4

Lets not get off topic. We can discuss PDF piracy on a seperate thread.

 

I for one prefer proper dead tree versions (books). If nothing else they look far nicer in my bookcase than printed out PDFs.

 

<I'd also like to see some Cthuhlu themed dust covers become available ... the various supplements I own are different editions and the different spine designs detracts from the aesthetic appeal. Anal, I know...but it bothers me !>

 

Doc, the campaign sounds very interesting, but I'm not so keen on the Miskatonic history one - my players like to play the same characters for a sequence of adventures in a campaign format....

 

Having said that I'd still buy the MV one (to read, not necessarily to play). Just would like to see the campaign come out first as I'd actually use that.

 

Off the top of my head (its been a long day, so this might be a baaad idea)

...What about doing some sort of combined real book and ransom model - maybe do each of the history of Miskatonics as ransoms/PDF and the campaign as a book (or vice versa).

 

That would potentially give you both a cash flow as you're writing (to help fund the printing of the book,which wont be cheap) and reduce the risk of piracy of ALL your work.

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tlynch999
Doc, the campaign sounds very interesting, but I'm not so keen on the Miskatonic history one - my players like to play the smae characters in a campaign format.

 

Who's to say your PCs aren't descendants of the pre-generated characters? It'd certainly add something to your current players' character history if nothing else...and could spawn adventures in the current day as they go back and look for their roots...!

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Tigger_MK4
Doc, the campaign sounds very interesting, but I'm not so keen on the Miskatonic history one - my players like to play the smae characters in a campaign format.

 

Who's to say your PCs aren't descendants of the pre-generated characters? ..

 

Unfortunately - I tried that one with Ripples from Carcosa (a decent enough monograph!) and half the gorup didnt turn up.

 

I have a WoW fanatic as one of the players, who won't turn up unless its a campaign. "its a one-off so I can miss this week. I'll do a raid instead".

 

Another chap uses a similar excuse under the heading of "family duties"

 

That leaves me with only 2 players which (due to the dynamics) means the group doesnt meet (or plays board games instead).

 

But again, lets not get too sidetracked.

 

Doc, any thing else we can help you with that we've yet to mention ? :-)

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ZenWired
I wanna make books. I like books. They look nice on shelves.

 

If I may add my humble $0.02:

 

I love books as well. There's nothing quite like the visceral sensation of reading a book. The electronic equivalent is seriously lacking in that department.

 

However, that doesn't mean that I wouldn't purchase or read an e-book. Nor does it mean that by printing books you have to forego releasing electronic versions.

 

As a consumer, I prefer both options, for multiple reasons: First, if it's a book I'm only marginally interested in (say for source material or inspiration) I'd prefer the option of buying a lower-cost e-version. Second, sometimes the only way to get a solid idea of what's in a product, I've found, is to buy the e-version first. If it looks good, I rarely have a problem forking over the cash for a printed version. (Provided the publisher is canny enough to not over-price his/her e-books. Some folks seem to think they should charge the same or almost the same price for their e-books as they do their printed versions. Given that the purchaser is buying a much more restricted version when he/she buys an e-book (a non-transferrable license for the e-book, as opposed to a resellable print copy), the price of the e-version should reflect the difference appropriately.)

 

As a publisher (well, until just recently), I also prefer both options. I have no qualms about providing my games as e-books. I believe in providing easy accessibility to them (for the reasons stated above), and I'm not overly concerned about piracy (for the reasons stated below). The fact that the overhead costs for providing e-copies is nearly negligible doesn't hurt either.

 

What about piracy? Can't a person buy a pdf, and then make endless copies? (I'm not really sure).

 

Of course, but this is no reason to not release e-versions of your work. As others have said, it will end up getting pirated regardless. The quality (or lack thereof) of a pirated version is no deterrant; if a person doesn't want to pay for your book, they won't - plain and simple. (BTW, I've seen plenty of pirated material in my time on this rock, and just because someone scans/OCR's a book doesn't automatically mean that it's going to suffer significantly compared to an OEF version. That's a broad, and often incorrect claim.)

 

You're not going to prevent piracy of your book by not releasing it as an e-version. All you're going to do is deny yourself a completely valid revenue stream. (And maybe upset those potential consumers who are fans of the e-book.)

 

Just my opinion, but hopefully a little less knee-jerk-ish than some other folks' PoV's.

 

Whichever way you ultimately choose to go, Doc, good luck!

 

Zen

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Blackmyron

I realize it's premature but... I almost had a Comic Book Guy heart attack over the possibility...

The Outer Gods sounds a lot like the Great Old Ones collection (which has oddly not been recently reprinted by Chaosium, to my knowledge).

It may be an ascthetic reason, but I prefer books as well - I just love my neat collection of CoC books too much.

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Danharms

This sounds great! RETURN TO DUNWICH has been one of my favorite CoC books for some time, and I'd love to see what's in store

 

As to the PDF/print issue - I'd say both.

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Evans

Possibly release the PDFs a little while after releasing the books. That way you can avoid instant Piracy.

 

 

 

Edit: Looks like I owe you an apology Harms; Franklyn's fate was futher discussed in Encyclopedia Cthulhiana under Undercliffe's entry

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North73

Re pdfs, it's a tricky one. i much prefer a physical book to a virtual one. Clearly it's a more satisfying and sexy experience! But, if you really want to run something for love of the game, something that is out of print, then I can understand the attraction of the less than legal download. It's not the way I go, but I can see why people do this and personally wouldn't judge them for it.

 

There are many good ebay sellers who charge a reasonable fee for oop Cthulhu material on ebay. I have however, grudgingly paid through the nose for out of print Cthulhu stuff in this manner.

Now, Chaosium aren't gaining anything a penny from such re-sales, but the sometimes less than scrupulous owners of these dog eared supplements who hold buyers to ransom most assuredly are.

Although this is the 'legal' route as opposed to the afore mentioned illegal one, you have to ask myself at times, who are the real swines in this state of affairs...

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