Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

ToC homerules


  • Please log in to reply
35 replies to this topic

#21 Tony Williams

Tony Williams

    Lesser Servitor

  • Patron
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,053 posts
  • LocationUK

Posted 18 November 2017 - 11:21 AM

There's lots of interesting stuff there, although it is rather more complex, I think, than what I'd like to use with my players. 

 

Can't say I'm a fan of complexity either but I felt the need to distinguish the types of Pillar by Sanity/Stability loss differentials otherwise munchkins would work out which would be the best Pillar type to use to get the best benefit to potential threat ratio and only choose that type all the time. A table summarising the Pillar types and loss/gains would help I think.
 
I'm less keen on the Cthulhu Mythos use being made more random. I like the clarity of it,... I'm not sure how nasty it is in comparison.
 
I'm not a fan of the rule of automatic Stability/Sanity loss for use of the Cthulhu Mythos ability - it means players are loathe to use the ability ( or at least mine are ) if they are going to be automatically penalised for it. So I wanted to introduce a potential for "getting away with it". I also wanted to skew the penalties more towards Sanity loss than Stability loss since I think ToC needs more ways to hit Sanity and what is more threatening to your sanity than thinking about the Mythos ?
 
If you pass the test roll and "get away with it" then it isn't nasty in comparison to official ToC rules at all, but if you fail the test roll then I think the losses are fairly equivalent in scope to ToC's Mythos Revelation table ( especially if the player offered a Pillar as support to the die roll and it breaks ). The Keeper could set the test difficulty higher than the suggested 5 depending if he felt the revelation was particularly horrible and needed more certainty of a Sanity/Stability hit.
 
Getting player buy-in might require a bit more, depending on the players, including the keeper. They require varying levels of tactical challenge, emotional involvement or creative control, and the skill of the keeper is recognising these and ensuring the conditions for their supply. And of course it's a balancing act between all the people at the table.

 

So true. The best Keepers know how to differentiate the "D'n'D Min/Maxers" from the "Diceless Roleplayers" at their table and offer opportunities for both ( and of course all shades of RPGer inbetween those extremes ). God, players who never GM don't know how hard we have it [holds back of hand to forehead].


Edited by Tony Williams, 18 November 2017 - 11:46 AM.

Do you play Trail of Cthulhu ? You may find these downloads useful...

The Condensed Rules for Trail of Cthulhu PDF - the rulebook as slim as it can go.

The Enchiridion of Elucidation PDF - a guidebook for both players and Keepers, with advice on playing the game.



Log in to remove this video.

#22 vincentVV

vincentVV

    Knight of the Outer Void

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 208 posts
  • LocationMinsk, Belarus

Posted 18 November 2017 - 06:30 PM

Mmm.. excuse me, can you make some clarifications, please?

Say, you have a Pillar - a close friend.

a) My friend betrays me - what happens?

b ) My friend is killed by a many-eyes monstrocity right in front of my eyes - what happens?

c) And the last - I loose Sanity (say, from 9 to 8) an cannot support my friend as a Pillar - what happens?

 

Thanks.


Edited by vincentVV, 18 November 2017 - 06:30 PM.


#23 Tony Williams

Tony Williams

    Lesser Servitor

  • Patron
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,053 posts
  • LocationUK

Posted 18 November 2017 - 06:50 PM

a ) Your friend betrays you ( and it does not involve the Mythos e.g. he has an affair with your wife ) - you lose 2 Stability rating and 2 Stability pool points ( no Sanity loss because the Mythos is not involved ). If your friend betrayed you because he had somehow become infected by the Mythos, and you knew it was because he had become corrupted, then it would be like case ( b ) below.

 

b ) Your friend is killed by a Mythos beastie - lose 6 Stability pool points and 2 Sanity pool points ( as if the Mythos corrupted your Pillar ).

 

c ) You lost Sanity rating so you can't support your friend as a Pillar any more - you don't lose any more Sanity or Stability but you lose all interest in communicating with your friend ( losing Sanity has affected how you view your friend and you don't consider them worth your interest any more ).

 

 

In all three examples you lose the friend as a Pillar so you have 1 less Pillar of Sanity than when you started. 


Edited by Tony Williams, 18 November 2017 - 08:35 PM.

Do you play Trail of Cthulhu ? You may find these downloads useful...

The Condensed Rules for Trail of Cthulhu PDF - the rulebook as slim as it can go.

The Enchiridion of Elucidation PDF - a guidebook for both players and Keepers, with advice on playing the game.


#24 vincentVV

vincentVV

    Knight of the Outer Void

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 208 posts
  • LocationMinsk, Belarus

Posted 18 November 2017 - 08:24 PM

Got it now. Thanks.



#25 vincentVV

vincentVV

    Knight of the Outer Void

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 208 posts
  • LocationMinsk, Belarus

Posted 18 November 2017 - 09:22 PM

Tony, can you give some examples of "describing why the pillar means nothing to a character anymore"?

 

E.g., the PC has an old photograph where he and his friend are sitting by the river.

a) Then this Pc suffers a Sanity loss and can support this pillar no more.

b ) The player is testing hiis Cthulhu Mythos ability and adds a bonus to the roll, offering his pillar (a photo). And fails. 

How can he logically describe the avertion of his atitude to this pillar? He cared for it for many years, and suddenly he says "Hey.. I think I don't feel any warm from it anymore" and just throws it away? 

Can there be other explanations exept for a sudden change of attitude?

 

I think you've just created a great alteration to ToC Pillars\Sources rules, but it still needs some clarifications and examples (at least for me).

 

Thanks. =)



#26 Tony Williams

Tony Williams

    Lesser Servitor

  • Patron
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,053 posts
  • LocationUK

Posted 18 November 2017 - 09:41 PM

Tony, can you give some examples of "describing why the pillar means nothing to a character anymore"?

 

The thing to remember in cases ( b ) and ( c ) is that the character has recently lost Sanity, so they have gone a bit mad and that is now affecting how they relate to their Pillars.

 

As a Keeper I'd actually give the responsibility to the player to explain why they no longer relate to their Pillar but here's some examples I can think of:

 

The photo - in the water in the background...there's...there's...a Deep One! How did I not notice that before ?! Oh God, I can't look at it anymore.

 

A saved voice message from a loved one on your phone - Hang on, is that some sort of chanting in the background ?! What the hell is that sound ? It makes me feel nauseous now. DELETE MESSAGE.

 

A letter from a loved one - wait a minute, if I take every 3rd letter from every 4th word and write it backwards and then move it forward 13 letters of the alphabet it says "I HATE YOU". Why did she hide that message in there ? Why ? RIPS IT UP.

 

The Pillar itself has not changed - the mind of the player character has changed ( through Sanity loss ) and starts to see corruption ( which isn't actually there ) in things they used to trust.

 

If the Sanity loss was by using a Pillar to back up a failed Cthulhu Mythos revelation roll - case ( b ) - then the best result would be to somehow link the Mythos revelation they just learned to why they now distrust the lost Pillar. e.g. If the revelation had just given them the knowledge that there are things called "Deep Ones", that are aquatic, then that ties in perfectly with them rejecting the photo of a river. Not every case will be that obvious but if you and your player put your heads together I would think you might be able to come up with something. Remember that the player character has just gone more mad so it doesn't even have to make great sense - it's madness.


Edited by Tony Williams, 18 November 2017 - 10:10 PM.

Do you play Trail of Cthulhu ? You may find these downloads useful...

The Condensed Rules for Trail of Cthulhu PDF - the rulebook as slim as it can go.

The Enchiridion of Elucidation PDF - a guidebook for both players and Keepers, with advice on playing the game.


#27 vincentVV

vincentVV

    Knight of the Outer Void

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 208 posts
  • LocationMinsk, Belarus

Posted 18 November 2017 - 10:13 PM

Hm... I mean - players can just ignore it if it is too complicated and vague to explain and undertand even to the Keeper. After all, this explanaion doesn't mean anything to players. Why waste time on inventing a useless explanation? Throw it away and on to the game!

 

What saves a day, i think, is the fact that it can be a rare event - loosing a pillar - so the players won't get too tired of it. Am I right?



#28 Tony Williams

Tony Williams

    Lesser Servitor

  • Patron
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,053 posts
  • LocationUK

Posted 18 November 2017 - 10:31 PM

Hm... I mean - players can just ignore it if it is too complicated and vague to explain and undertand even to the Keeper. After all, this explanaion doesn't mean anything to players. Why waste time on inventing a useless explanation? Throw it away and on to the game!

 

Sure, that is certainly one way to play. I think my players might like the opportunity to work in some madness into their roleplaying. But each to their own. At the end of the day the Pillar is gone so don't stress too much over it.


What saves a day, i think, is the fact that it can be a rare event - loosing a pillar - so the players won't get too tired of it. Am I right?

 

I don't think it would be much rarer under these rules than the "normal" rules.

 

Generally in one-shot or short adventures it doesn't happen unless someone has a bad Mythos revelation ( case b ).

 

In a campaign then Sanity rating is eroded over many sessions ( through failed Mythos-tainted Stability tests, spellcasting or gaining Cthulhu Mythos rating points ) and it would happen more often ( case c ).


Edited by Tony Williams, 18 November 2017 - 10:48 PM.

Do you play Trail of Cthulhu ? You may find these downloads useful...

The Condensed Rules for Trail of Cthulhu PDF - the rulebook as slim as it can go.

The Enchiridion of Elucidation PDF - a guidebook for both players and Keepers, with advice on playing the game.


#29 vincentVV

vincentVV

    Knight of the Outer Void

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 208 posts
  • LocationMinsk, Belarus

Posted 19 November 2017 - 12:51 AM

Thanks a lot! I think I dig it now.



#30 rylehNC

rylehNC

    Lesser Servitor

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,870 posts

Posted 19 November 2017 - 05:23 PM

The Fall of Delta Green rules use Bonds (taken from the new edition of DG itself), which are like armor for Stability. You could adapt these to Symbols, Stances, and Solaces as easily as Sources. Although for inanimate objects I would make them cost less and not replaceable.


Happy is the tomb where no wizard hath lain, and happy the town at night whose wizards are all ashes.

-Ibn Schacabao

#31 Tony Williams

Tony Williams

    Lesser Servitor

  • Patron
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,053 posts
  • LocationUK

Posted 19 November 2017 - 09:21 PM

I've made a crib sheet for the revised Pillars of Sanity rules which can be downloaded from:

https://1drv.ms/b/s!...3CLwTq-C9LhZgkX
 

The Fall of Delta Green rules use Bonds (taken from the new edition of DG itself), which are like armor for Stability. You could adapt these to Symbols, Stances, and Solaces as easily as Sources. Although for inanimate objects I would make them cost less and not replaceable.


I wouldn't consider any of the "new" Pillar types as replaceable except possibly a Stance. The Stance could be replaced with a new one through the standard ongoing Psychoanalysis rules (like replacing a traditional lost Pillar of Sanity).

I'm keen to get my hands on The Fall of Delta Green ( and Fearful Symmetries - I'm a Blake fan ).

 

UPDATE:

 

I've put a rule tweak into the crib sheet:

 

"Pillars of Sanity can now be used to regain lost Stability pool points. Each of the investigator’s Pillars can be used once per game session to do this, but more than one Pillar of the same type can not be used in the same session."
 
The crib sheet is now document version 1.2 and can be got from the above download link.

Edited by Tony Williams, 20 November 2017 - 11:59 AM.

Do you play Trail of Cthulhu ? You may find these downloads useful...

The Condensed Rules for Trail of Cthulhu PDF - the rulebook as slim as it can go.

The Enchiridion of Elucidation PDF - a guidebook for both players and Keepers, with advice on playing the game.


#32 vincentVV

vincentVV

    Knight of the Outer Void

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 208 posts
  • LocationMinsk, Belarus

Posted 21 November 2017 - 07:15 PM

I was not able to download 'cause I'm not registered on OneDrive. Do I have to register or any alternative links are possible? ((



#33 Tony Williams

Tony Williams

    Lesser Servitor

  • Patron
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,053 posts
  • LocationUK

Posted 21 November 2017 - 09:02 PM

Pelgrane Press are going to host it on their website soon. I'll update the link when they get the file put up.


Do you play Trail of Cthulhu ? You may find these downloads useful...

The Condensed Rules for Trail of Cthulhu PDF - the rulebook as slim as it can go.

The Enchiridion of Elucidation PDF - a guidebook for both players and Keepers, with advice on playing the game.


#34 vincentVV

vincentVV

    Knight of the Outer Void

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 208 posts
  • LocationMinsk, Belarus

Posted 26 November 2017 - 06:34 AM

Great! =)

 

Besides, I thought about one more homerule.
When a character is totally out of Stability (-12) he is not out og action!
He is still blasted, but now instead of Stability he looses Sanity in the same amounts!

 

Example: A character is at -12 Stability and has 8 Sanity. He is told to lose 4 Stability. As his Stability is already at -12 - he loses 4 Sanity instead!

 

This reflects the final stage of character's mind crumbling to pieces.

 

And one more, stolen from WoD.

 

According to ToC rules, a characters gets a mental disorder after "a significant Stability loss" yet how much is this "significant" - is not specified.

 

I don't like the idea of connecting disoders with stability loss, so I offer nther approach.

 

Any time a character loses SANITY - he rolls 2D6. If he gets a number LOWER than his new Sanity score - everything is OK (well, he still loses Sanity, but OTHERWISE - everything is OK).

 

But if he rolls HIGHER than his new Sanity score - he gets a mental disorder.

 

Simple.

 

The lower your Sanity - the higher the chances to acquire something really nasty =).



#35 Tony Williams

Tony Williams

    Lesser Servitor

  • Patron
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,053 posts
  • LocationUK

Posted 05 December 2017 - 02:21 PM

The variant Pillars of Sanity rules and crib-sheet are now available here:

 

http://site.pelgrane...f-sanity-rules/


Edited by Tony Williams, 05 December 2017 - 02:21 PM.

Do you play Trail of Cthulhu ? You may find these downloads useful...

The Condensed Rules for Trail of Cthulhu PDF - the rulebook as slim as it can go.

The Enchiridion of Elucidation PDF - a guidebook for both players and Keepers, with advice on playing the game.


#36 vincentVV

vincentVV

    Knight of the Outer Void

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 208 posts
  • LocationMinsk, Belarus

Posted Yesterday, 07:25 AM

I have another homrule which adds lethality to games.

 

In basic rules each character has X hp. This means, each of them can take X wounds before he gets a possibility to lose consiousness. That's ok. But after characters reach 0 hp - they are in the same conditions as to when to roll! (after crossing "0" and "-6"). And each of them dies at -12!

 

My idea is to use "half of character's negative Health Rating" istead of "-5" and "Negative Health rating" instead of "-12"!

 

Example: a character has Health Rating of 8. He is wounded when he is between 0 and -4, and he is heavily wounded when he is between -5 and -8. At -8 the chracter dies.

 

This shows the conformity between PCs Health rating and his ability to survive.