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Cthulhu Confidential


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#21 waltshumate

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 07:35 PM

Well, frankly, yes. SWGs get beaten up all the time by other SWGs in L.A. Noir ( whether they deserve that or not is another matter, but it IS ONLY fiction we are talking about ). 

 

If you tell your player they are going to be a hardboiled SWG detective in an L.A. Noir setting I don't think they'd be terribly surprised or offended if their character gets beaten up during play.

 

However if your player wants to gender-swap to a female private eye, but play the scenario as written, then you are introducing physical violence against women and possible lesbianism; issues that might offend the sensibilities of certain players ( which is what the whole boxed text is talking about ).

 

Although the original quote you picked out makes it sound like SWGs deserve to be beaten up that's not how I interpret it taken in context. In context it's saying SWGs get beaten up all the time in L.A. Noir fiction ( and again I stress the work FICTION ).

 

Nobody is talking about beating up SWG players ( just characters! ).

 

In or out of context if that statement had been made about any other group then twitter and rpg.net woud have lit up like a christmas tree and there would have been demands that game stores and drivethrurpg/rpgno not stock the game They could have made the point about not wanting to offend certain people (as you put it) with out creating a  TLA label. You obviously have never read any Ellroy or watched anything based on his work if you think that white CIS males are the only ones that get beaten up in LA Noir.




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#22 Tony Williams

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 08:43 PM

In or out of context if that statement had been made about any other group


But it wasn't made about any other group (it was made about the majority "group" in L.A. Noir), and taking it out of context of the call-out box is greatly misconstruing its purpose.

You obviously have never read any Ellroy or watched anything based on his work if you think that white CIS males are the only ones that get beaten up in LA Noir.


Nowhere have I said that SWGs are the only ones getting beaten up in L.A. Noir - just that they are the usual punchbags (so don't put words in my mouth).

The quote is getting at that -> SWGs are the usual punchbags in L.A. Noir. But I guess you have chosen to take it out of context so you can be offended as if it is saying that SWGs in the real world should deserve to be beaten up (which, in my opinion, is a ridiculous way to interpret that quote - FFS the author is a SWG!).

I've said my piece - if you are offended then I'm not going to be able to calm you down.

Do you play Trail of Cthulhu ? You may find these downloads useful...

The Condensed Rules for Trail of Cthulhu PDF - the rulebook as slim as it can go.

The Enchiridion of Elucidation PDF - a guidebook for both players and Keepers, with advice on playing the game.


#23 waltshumate

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 01:48 PM

But it wasn't made about any other  group (it was made about the majority "group" in L.A. Noir), and taking it out of context of the call-out box is greatly misconstruing its purpose.

Nowhere have I said that SWGs are the only ones getting beaten up in L.A. Noir - just that they are the usual punchbags (so don't put words in my mouth).

The quote is getting at that -> SWGs are the usual punchbags in L.A. Noir. But I guess you have chosen to take it out of context so you can be offended as if it is saying that SWGs in the real world should deserve to be beaten up (which, in my opinion, is a ridiculous way to interpret that quote - FFS the author is a SWG!).

I've said my piece - if you are offended then I'm not going to be able to calm you down.

 
>But it wasn't made about any other  group
So that is ok then.
 
And if you can't see the obvious offensiveness of this is, which is  also obvious since  you agree that if it had been said about another group it would have caused a  storm.  Also is quite obvious from your vigorous defence that you are shill for Pelgrane Press.

#24 PoC

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 03:05 PM

Tony Williams has produced fan materials for Trail of Cthulhu but is not a shill for Pelgrane Press. Pelgrane have been invited to comment and should they choose to do so they are welcome to post here.

Meanwhile other lines of discussion about Cthulhu Confidential are invited.


#25 CatPelgrane

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 12:57 AM

Hey Waltshumate, this is Cat, the Managing Director and co-owner of Pelgrane Press. Thanks for taking the time to articulate your concerns here; we take issues like this very seriously, and appreciate the opportunity to respond. 

 

The noir source material for Cthulhu Confidential - the works of Raymond Chandler and Dashiell Hammett, for example - overwhelmingly feature violence between SWGs. This is a key trope of this fiction. The only way that "Straight White Guys make great punching bags" could be called a theme of this game is if you are making the point that "SWGs make great punching bags" is a theme of noir in general, in which case, I'd agree, and it's good to hear that you feel we've captured the source material so accurately.

 

For context, the rest of the paragraph reads, 

"When a corrupt cop or a brutal gangster gives the default version of Dex the works, most players and GMs will see the scene through the lens of those stylized genre tropes. The moment won’t take on a symbolic weight it can’t support. If you’re playing Dex as LGBT, a woman, or a person of color, that same sequence could easily evoke a history of oppression and violence in a way that overwhelms the rest of the narrative."

 

Robin - who is, as Tony Williams has already pointed out, an SWG himself - is not in any way suggesting that SWGs "deserve" to be punched; that's your word, not his. He's saying that people accept punching SWGs as an intrinsic part of this genre. As a result, they are largely blind to violence against SWGs. This makes it considerably less problematic than advocating "punching women" or "punching PoC", which have clear sexist and racist overtones.


#26 waltshumate

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 09:22 PM

Hey Waltshumate, this is Cat, the Managing Director and co-owner of Pelgrane Press. Thanks for taking the time to articulate your concerns here; we take issues like this very seriously, and appreciate the opportunity to respond. 
 
The noir source material for Cthulhu Confidential - the works of Raymond Chandler and Dashiell Hammett, for example - overwhelmingly feature violence between SWGs. This is a key trope of this fiction. The only way that "Straight White Guys make great punching bags" could be called a theme of this game is if you are making the point that "SWGs make great punching bags" is a theme of noir in general, in which case, I'd agree, and it's good to hear that you feel we've captured the source material so accurately.
 
For context, the rest of the paragraph reads, 
"When a corrupt cop or a brutal gangster gives the default version of Dex the works, most players and GMs will see the scene through the lens of those stylized genre tropes. The moment won’t take on a symbolic weight it can’t support. "If you’re playing Dex as LGBT, a woman, or a person of color, that same sequence could easily evoke a history of oppression and violence in a way that overwhelms the rest of the narrative.""
 
Robin - who is, as Tony Williams has already pointed out, an SWG himself - is not in any way suggesting that SWGs "deserve" to be punched; that's your word, not his. He's saying that people accept punching SWGs as an intrinsic part of this genre. As a result, they are largely blind to violence against SWGs. This makes it considerably less problematic than advocating "punching women" or "punching PoC", which have clear sexist and racist overtones.

 
The source material, as listed in the bibliography of your product, also includes Ellroy and a feature of his work is violence against non SWGs.  I was not saying  that Tony was suggesting that SWGs deserved to be punched I was suggesting that Pelegrane Press believe that SWGs deserve a good beating because that's the sort of politics you like to wrap yourselves in.  
 
>"If you’re playing Dex as LGBT, a woman, or a person of color, that same sequence could easily evoke a history of oppression and violence in a way that overwhelms the rest of >the narrative." 
 
So a someone playing a non SWG  Dex could not cope with a rough interrogation from  a couple of SWG cop characters  but  they would be ok with Dex being maimed or killed by non SWG characters or is it that non SWG characters should never be harmed?

#27 PoC

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 11:08 PM

Pelgrane recently released a new (4th) Cthulhu Confidential scenario in PDF: High Voltage Kill I wonder if they will release a print anthology or if the nature of the cards aspect means CC scenarios are better suited to PDF distribution.

 

As cited in post#12 there's a Problem and Edge Cards deck in plan at least.



#28 Travern

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 05:41 PM

Recently I ran across a web-based card generator for board game prototyping that I think is flexible enough to work nicely for Cthulhu Confidential's Problem and Edge Cards.

 

Here are a couple of examples from The Fathomless Sleep with Pelgrane's Trail of Cthulhu art (while these are just screenshots, the site allows for easy printing with a clean layout).

 

GaI2s6R.png

 

While I like Cthulhu Confidential's minimalist/Art Deco design, I appreciate that some players might prefer more elaborate or illustrated versions.  With color printing widespread, it's not too hard to come up with alternatives.



#29 Tony Williams

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 07:07 PM

Great link Travern


Do you play Trail of Cthulhu ? You may find these downloads useful...

The Condensed Rules for Trail of Cthulhu PDF - the rulebook as slim as it can go.

The Enchiridion of Elucidation PDF - a guidebook for both players and Keepers, with advice on playing the game.


#30 Aries04

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 07:32 PM

seconded...those look great!!!

 

Great link Travern



#31 Travern

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 06:57 PM

Thanks - I hope people will find the website useful.  Although its UI is pretty barebones as far as inputting text, it does show you a live preview that smooths along the process.  Also, if you don't mind rolling up your sleeves for a little coding, you can tweak the HTML and CSS to suit your tastes and adjust some of the formatting (the top text box needs a little more padding to fit descenders, I notice).

 

Incidentally, I wonder if Pelgrane would consider offering a fillable PDF of their own template for Problem/Edge cards. Professional-looking decks for home-brewed Cthulhu Confidential scenarios would be a welcome aid, as would customized decks for use with their published ones.  And this topic will likely come up again with the Shock/Injury cards for the King in Yellow RPG, I suspect.



#32 Travern

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 02:38 PM

And naturally Pelgrane has already created not only form-fillable PDFs for Problem and Edge card templates, but also generic/example sets of the former and latter.



#33 PoC

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 04:39 PM

Pelgrane have announced the availability of the Limited Edition version of Cthulhu Confidential (£65).
 
cthulhu-confidential-limited-edition-cover.png
 

This beautiful faux-leatherbound version of the first GUMSHOE One-2-One game comes in rich black, embossed with gleaming silver. It includes a limited edition bookplate signed by all three authors.
 
Langston Wright is an African-American war veteran and scholar in WW2-era Washington, DC. Vivian Sinclair is The New York Herald’s most determined scoop-hound in 1930s NYC. And Dex Raymond is a hard-boiled private detective with a nose for trouble in 1930s Los Angeles.
 
Each is a lone investigator, equipped with smarts, fists, and just maybe a code of honor, uncovering their town’s secret truths. But what happens when you scratch the veneer of human malfeasance to reveal an eternal evil—the malign, cosmic indifference of HP Lovecraft’s Cthulhu Mythos

 
[Update] Also out is another PDF adventure featuring Vivian Sinclair: Ex Astoria

You are Vivian Sinclair: a sharp-dressing, straight-talking, New York investigative journalist. Equipped with your smarts, your notebook, and your unerring nose for a good story, your job is to scour the streets of the City of Dreams and dig up its darkest secrets.
 
A brawl between picketers from the miner’s union and scab laborers working on the Winn Water Tunnel has turned into a riot, and Vivian Sinclair is on the scene reporting. But it seems the scab workers are the least of the miners’ concerns.  Can Viv prevent further injuries and an environmental disaster?