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Chaosium Kickstarter: Horror on the Orient Express Box set

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#41 red_bus

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 07:22 PM

I think one of the advantages for them is that they get the money in advance (I think I understand this correctly..?), which is cheaper than borrowing it and also easier - especially with the way banks are at the moment (I assume US commercial bank culture is broadly similar to UK practice).

But the BIG advantage is that they get to know much more about the demand for this in advance. Some successful kickstarters get just enough to fund the product. Some go way over the top, sometimes many many times over what the initial target is. So, Chaosium will have more information to go on when estimating what the demand will be. Of course we all know here that this will sell - but the question is how much? Will there be demand for 3,000 box sets, or 50,000 ?? Kickstarter helps Chaosium to know a bit more about the potential demand and judge how many to print etc...


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#42 neorxnawang

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 07:22 PM

I hope people will forgive my ignorance, but why can't Chaosium find the funds itself. Is $20,000 or $40,000 really that big a sum for their corporation to find ?
Just finding this all a bit strange.


I would refer you to the very long Upcoming from Chaosium thread in the forums for a discussion of people's perceptions in this regard. And regretfully, I still haven't been paid for the last publication that I wrote for them--the anniversary date is coming up.

Edited by neorxnawang, 16 August 2012 - 07:47 PM.


#43 sda

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 07:48 PM

I hope people will forgive my ignorance, but why can't Chaosium find the funds itself. Is $20,000 or $40,000 really that big a sum for their corporation to find ?
Just finding this all a bit strange.


Seems like more and more established companies are going this way. As pointed out, this gives them working capital up front, plus an idea of the numbers of books that might be needed. Also, Chaosium is notoriously and historically REALLY bad with money. Without going into gory details, they are long-known as a company VERY difficult to get your money out of after you write or produce art for them. I think this is a perfect way for them to do business, especially on bigger projects. I'm glad to see they finally jumped on the Kickstarter band wagon.
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#44 TAK

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 07:51 PM

I hope people will forgive my ignorance, but why can't Chaosium find the funds itself. Is $20,000 or $40,000 really that big a sum for their corporation to find ?
Just finding this all a bit strange.


Yeah, I don't know if you have noticed, but there isn't really that much money in printing RPGs.
That makes Kickstarter awesome. As red_bus mentioned, you get to see the scope before hand and get paid for the printing before hand.

Also, what sda said.

#45 PoC

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 10:26 PM

After discussions within the Innsmouth House this evening, we've decided to up our pledge to "Retailer's Delight", so we'll be getting six copies into the UK (though we won't be able to confirm any pre-orders at this time).

#46 Roquefort

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 10:27 PM

Anyone have an idea what the import duties would be to the UK, or should I just not worry about it and buy...

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#47 Pookie

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 11:04 PM

Anyone have an idea what the import duties would be to the UK, or should I just not worry about it and buy...

Roque.


In my experience it varies. I have paid £38 before and I have paid more.

Of course, Customs & Excise might not actually open your parcel at all, and just let it be delivered, but rest assured that if it does, you will be charged for their checking as well as being expected to pay for the import duties.

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#48 Black-Seal-Editor

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 11:11 PM

Anyone have an idea what the import duties would be to the UK, or should I just not worry about it and buy...


If Chaosium mark it as "book" or "printed material" then nothing at all... the problem is making sure that Chaosium does that.
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#49 Evilgaz

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 11:51 PM

I hope people will forgive my ignorance, but why can't Chaosium find the funds itself. Is $20,000 or $40,000 really that big a sum for their corporation to find ?
Just finding this all a bit strange.

If it was WotC it wold be a bit cheeky. Chaosium is essentially three or four people in a shed. Corporation sounds grand, but really its a small family business.

A lot of money is sunk into stock and until its sold, it means other books can't be paid for. Kickstarter allows for the monies up front and the project can then rock on without any delay due to cash flow and what not.

Not that I've got any insight into the financial status of Chaosium, I'm just drawing parallels to similar operations. I know it took a while with Delta Green stuff, because the team on that couldn't afford to print new product until the old stuff sold and they got the cash that had been tied up in books (for example).

#50 Pookie

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 12:18 AM

If Chaosium mark it as "book" or "printed material" then nothing at all... the problem is making sure that Chaosium does that.


The other issue is that the box will contain dice. That might attract the attention of Customs & Excise.
Dice are for gaming and gaming equates to gambling.

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#51 dce

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 01:05 AM

Looks like the Kickstarter has been off to a good start -- one day in and the project is about to hit the 75% funded mark.

I hope the folks at Chaosium take this as a sign that this is a viable business model for making nice, polished, high-quality versions of their products.


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#52 red_bus

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 10:35 AM

If Chaosium mark it as "book" or "printed material" then nothing at all... the problem is making sure that Chaosium does that.


Adam is spot on here. Printed material is zero-rated. As to other materials, one option is to ask Chaosium to send any bags/figs/obviously-not-paper-ephemera separately. Sometimes You can get lucky...if a package looks like it is books, then you can often get away with a few odds and ends inside. But if Chaosium stamp "GAME" all over the outside - then you are traipsing along to the sorting office to hand over pounds to a grumpy teller on Saturday morning.

#53 msk

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 12:15 PM

OK, so I'm in too. I hope I got this right: I went for the $60 campaign option but, if I've read it properly, I had to add an extra $25 to my pledge for being an overseas (i.e UK) order. I would have liked an option that included the dice but I wasn't interested in the tote bag etc that comes with the next level up.

#54 yockenthwaite

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 12:22 PM

OK, so I'm in too. I hope I got this right: I went for the $60 campaign option but, if I've read it properly, I had to add an extra $25 to my pledge for being an overseas (i.e UK) order. I would have liked an option that included the dice but I wasn't interested in the tote bag etc that comes with the next level up.


There's a bit of uncertainty at the moment re overseas shipping surcharges. Meghan of Chaosium issued an update last night (see the updates tab on the kickstarter page) revising the charges. But we're still trying to verify what they are. I originally added $25 for my Campaign Deluxe order, but it looks like I might just need to pay $10 now. She will clarify things as soon as possible, but since Chaosium are at Gencon there may be a bit of a delay.

#55 justadame

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 12:58 PM

Of course, kickstarter is just like pre-ordering, with more leeway and options. Yeah, makes more sense.
Easy to forget how small some firms are, and of course, small, high quality print runs, cost a lot of money.
Well, I hope they make it a good one, I used to have the old edition (in the paper sleavey thingy) but sold it in a mad clear out on Ebay some years before {sigh}.
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#56 cjearkham

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 01:22 PM

I know it's ridiculous to suggest as the Innsmouth House Players probably don't have money to burn, but wouldn't it be cool if (using the Rogues Gallery pledge level) we could get Betty Sunderland, Professor Morretti, Colonel Goodenough, Violet and Grace as pre generated characters in the book :)

I've written Chaosium to request that these characters be added anyway, as a tribute. I think YSDC's recorded campaign has done more to promote this product than anything Chaosium themselves could have done -- and that's without the associated publicity from drooling over the German edition (which seems to be happening for pretty much anything a European licensee puts out these days).

Edited by cjearkham, 17 August 2012 - 01:22 PM.
clarification

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#57 Pookie

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 01:57 PM

I've written Chaosium to request that these characters be added anyway, as a tribute. I think YSDC's recorded campaign has done more to promote this product than anything Chaosium themselves could have done -- and that's without the associated publicity from drooling over the German edition (which seems to be happening for pretty much anything a European licensee puts out these days).


It would be easy to include as a funding reward. As yet, Chaosium has not announced any of those so...

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#58 MrBlueSky

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 02:19 AM

As yet, Chaosium has not announced any of those so...


I did get a response about my question. It was "sounds good, we're focused on Gen-Con, check back next week". Probably fair enough. I assume that applies to most updates on the Kickstarter.

Regarding my question, for those interested, soon there might be some backer levels above First Class designed for Players/Keepers (rather than retailers). I was disappointed I had to choose between the T-Shirt (Campaign Deluxe) or Keeper Screen (First Class) without an option to get both. Hopefully we'll see more options next week.

Also, just $327 to go!

#59 Tigger_MK4

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 05:38 AM

Goal achieved !...
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#60 WiseWolf

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 07:32 AM

I am glad that Chaosium finally decided to do this. This will give them money to do something big. It is their opportunity to do something great or once and for all step on their supportive fans. First class traveller for this.
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