What makes a good/poor suppliment?

[Haml337]

*inspired by the "worst 3 suppliments" topic*

(Instead of lambasting authors for their "worst" suppliments, why not discuss what's been published that is beyond the realm of kicking ass, and ask for more?)

Sure, everyone has their likes and dislikes as to how they play CoC, or any game. But you do have to admit, just like movies, there IS a distinctive line of quality that can (and sometimes must) be drawn. You just can't lump "Plan 9 From Outer Space" with "Close Encounters of the Third Kind."

So, where do you, as a player/keeper, draw the line of quality? What do you see in suppliments that's exemplary? What's lacking? Anything untried that you'd like to see? Consider this your wishlist.

[Danharms]

Let's see...

The difficulty here is that we're talking about "supplements" in general, which includes both adventures and source material.

For scenarios, my criteria is that I have to remember it after I read it. No, that's not a commentary on my memory. Any good scenario should have a synopsis that can be summed up in a single sentence and that sets it apart from other scenarios. This often derives from some innovation of the writer, whether that has to do with setting, tone, use of the Mythos, or plot twists. That's not a call for a gimmick in and of itself, of course, but it can help to get the attention of players and GM alike.

Other elements that make for good scenarios are foes who are played intelligently, and kept to a minimum in terms of number and kind. Taking into account how the rules work is also important. I'm convinced that a lot of people completely overestimate how deadly wizards are in the game, for instance, or whether firearms can blow a particular monster to smithereens. Using skills in innovative ways is a plus; forgetting they exist is a minus. (Personal pet peeve: DA characters with shields but no Shield skill.)

Sourcebooks: The real test of a sourcebook is whether I can find neat things that I want my players to do, and whether I can use it to run something immediately after reading it without needing anything else.

In general, editing and artwork are less important. You can have typos, but you'd better have the entries keyed correctly and not refer to things that don't exist. Bad artwork I don't mind, but your handouts should look good - these days, there's no excuse why they shouldn't.

What I'd like to see? More material concentrating on campaigns. One of the reasons I think DG has become so popular, aside from the modern supernatural conspiracy angle, is that it gives you a reason to bring together characters with different backgrounds in a plausible way, and provides reasons why they meet (or don't meet) each time to tackle the supernatural anew.

Likewise, I'd like to see more material you can use to create a campaign. The current trend seems to be toward convention-style one-shots. They're fun, don't get me wrong, but I think Cthulhu was written to support an ongoing saga, and it would be nice to see more tools (connected scenarios, Lovecraft Country sort of things, etc.) for people to create that sort of experience. This may contradict what I said above, of course...

[Gallowglass]

I buy RPG supplelemnts for two reasons. The first is the pleasure of reading them: a well written, creative expansion to a fmailiar setting, or exposition of a new setting can be an enjoyable thing in it's own right. But this isn't somehting an RPG company can rely on for sales.

The other reason is to help me play the game: whether in the specific sense of a detailed sceanrio or the general sense of providing support detail that helps me run the game: places that I don't have to map myself, NPC's I don't have to construct entirely on the fly, nuggest and tidbits that inspire my own cerativity, or substitute for it when I'm flagging (or pole-axed by players). The sort of books I want are the ones that serve me well whether I'm pulling them off the shelf in desperation half and hour before teh players arrive or seeking inspiration for a game I plan to run in three months...

Sounds like a tall order? Arkham Unveiled. People, places, things: all rich in interest and ideas on their own, but skillfully woven in to a whole that enahnces them all. Scenarios that illuminate the setting material, setting material that ensures the books utility long after the scenarios are played.

Cheers,

Nick Middleton

[GFS]

I try to steer clear of what I call "Kitchen Sink Mythos" -- scenarios where the author gets a little "cute" and/or tries to impress with his knowledge of the Mythos by tossing in as many critters as possible. I find it really annoying when someone takes it upon himself to draw connections to a plethora of previously published material for no apparent reason.

Another pet peeve are scenarios where the villain reveals his diabolical schemes in an awkward revelatory monologue, a la Scooby Doo: "I was all set to destroy Pleastantville by summoning Yog-Sothoth with the silver ring I stole from the museum -- and I would have succeeded, if it weren't for you meddling kids!"

And, finally, scenarios where key information is either horribly misplaced or -- even worse -- completely missing. It irks me when really obvious details are lacking, or aren't where they should logically appear.

[Danharms]

I buy RPG supplelemnts for two reasons. The first is the pleasure of reading them: a well written, creative expansion to a fmailiar setting, or exposition of a new setting can be an enjoyable thing in it's own right. But this isn't somehting an RPG company can rely on for sales.

I'm not so sure. Something tells me that the vast majority of RPG supplements are bought for reading rather than playing. I think that something is the Internet, but I think it's reliable.

Sounds like a tall order? Arkham Unveiled. People, places, things: all rich in interest and ideas on their own, but skillfully woven in to a whole that enahnces them all. Scenarios that illuminate the setting material, setting material that ensures the books utility long after the scenarios are played.

Absolutely. It could be improved with a section that was set up just for new Keepers - for example, something that says characters should be members of ENTRY 909, giving more details on it and how they can get involved. People are often nervous about "psychic investigation agencies", but if the focus is on contacts (which is what you really need) rather than resources, I think it could work without being cheesy. Giving that entry point, I think, is essential for newcomers.

[phobia]

I think a decent supplement for any roleplaying game should contain 3 things.

1) A decent setting. This is generic background material that is needed to run scenarios in the given setting. This should be generic enough to be usable for scenarios that are not included but that a keeper would create himself.

2) New rules. Spells, tomes, skills and professions are all examples of this, however other possibilities exist. They should be integrated nicely into #1. These are all usable in nearly any game with a bit of work.

3) A decent scenario. A good supplement includes at least one, if not more, scenarios playable in one or more game sessions with a minimum of work and at least 1 or 2 handouts. Of course, everything said above about scenarios is important as well.

Additionally, a supplement needs to be written well enough that the keeper enjoys reading it during the preperation. Also, It should be organized well enough that it can be referenced during play.

Almost all the COC supplements I have read meet these criteria and include these elements.

[ZootSoot]

*inspired by the "worst 3 suppliments" topic*

(Instead of lambasting authors for their "worst" suppliments, why not discuss what's been published that is beyond the realm of kicking ass, and ask for more?)

Sure, everyone has their likes and dislikes as to how they play CoC, or any game. But you do have to admit, just like movies, there IS a distinctive line of quality that can (and sometimes must) be drawn. You just can't lump "Plan 9 From Outer Space" with "Close Encounters of the Third Kind."

So, where do you, as a player/keeper, draw the line of quality? What do you see in suppliments that's exemplary? What's lacking? Anything untried that you'd like to see? Consider this your wishlist.

It's no "Plan 9" admittedly, but "Close Encounters" isn't that bad, it just lacks a little in the vision department; and Richard Deyfuss is good even in it.

[Danharms]

I think a decent supplement for any roleplaying game should contain 3 things.

1) A decent setting. This is generic background material that is needed to run scenarios in the given setting. This should be generic enough to be usable for scenarios that are not included but that a keeper would create himself.

I think the real concern here should be distinctive settings with accessibilty. If you've got a really cool scenario that needs to be set in Madagascar, I don't mind, so much as you give me the tools to get the characters there and back in a plausible manner. If your scenario is in an old haunted house, make it interesting, but leave out enough details so it can appear just about anywhere.

2) New rules. Spells, tomes, skills and professions are all examples of this, however other possibilities exist. They should be integrated nicely into #1. These are all usable in nearly any game with a bit of work.

On the other hand, writing up an old spell or tome with a new twist can also be an interesting bit.

I'm generally against the profusion of new skills in CoC unless they're really needed for the setting and no other skill does the same. I think it can unfairly impact a character who was set out to do X under the ordinary rules but is now penalized because they don't have skill X. Plus, there's rarely any concession to give characters more skill points to make up for the new skills they could have.

For example, let's take my Astrology skill in Averoigne. At the time, it seemed to be a good idea, as I wanted it to be separate from both Occult and Artes (Quadrivium), as people should have Astrology who don't necessarily have one or the other. After playtesting a character with Astrology, though, I found that adding another skill without adding skill points makes it difficult to create an astrologer, especially if you want them to have Augur. If I revise Averoigne skills, I will set Astrology equal to Quadrivium or Occult, whichever is higher.

3) A decent scenario. A good supplement includes at least one, if not more, scenarios playable in one or more game sessions with a minimum of work and at least 1 or 2 handouts. Of course, everything said above about scenarios is important as well.

That's not on my "need" list, but it's very high on the "want" list.

[ZootSoot]

I don't usually like published scenarios, they tend to not match my vision of the mythos and the world of the mythos. Too often they make entities too anthropomorphic, they create cults that are too widespread and influential and they spread mythos knowledge about with a heavy trowel amongst npcs. I prefer background supplements. I, as may have been noted elsewhere, have no tolerance for Delta Green which just churns my stomach with its flip treatment of the mythos.

[Haml337]

It's no "Plan 9" admittedly, but "Close Encounters" isn't that bad, it just lacks a little in the vision department; and Richard Deyfuss is good even in it.

Exactly. Using broad examples, I was stratifying quality, using cinema as the metaphor.

"Close Encounters" = good suppliment
"Plan 9" = villainously bad

[ShishKang]

It's no "Plan 9" admittedly, but "Close Encounters" isn't that bad, it just lacks a little in the vision department; and Richard Deyfuss is good even in it.

At least no leading actors died in the middle of filming it... and Spielberg didn't keep making the movie in spite of this...

That said, a bad supplement is rather like Falwell's definition of pornography: I can't define it, but I know it when I see it. IMHO, many of the older adventures (the Dungeons & Dragons style ones) are worse than even the worst supplement. I have nothing against playing a game of D&D now and then, but I don't want it mucking up my Cthulhu.