Which Elder Sign Do You Prefer?

[FunGuyfromYuggoth]

http://www.miskatonic.net/pickman/mythos/sign.htm

The above link amply explains the difference between the two Elder Signs, which is the more familiar star-shaped Elder Sign created by August Derleth versus the one sketched out by HPL. To make things ever more interesting, Lin Carter tried to reconcile the two. Which one are you using in your campaign? Please note I am using images from the site and have no control over the relative size of the images.


Elder Sign by Derleth (below)


Elder Sign by HPL (below)


Elder Sign by Lin Carter (below)

[cynick]

Derleth's Elder Sign is, essentially, a pentagram - common to many human cultures, beloved by occultists and conformists teens attempting to rebel by dressing the same as each other. It is a very human symbol.

On the other hand, HPL's sign is.... inexplicable? Offhand I can't think of anything that it looks like, which is ideal for something that is supposed to be of alien origin.

However, I personally wouldn't allow anything so mundane as a mere symbol have any effect against the creatures of the Mythos...

[MrFilthyIke]

Hmmm, I feel Cthulhu weak, for I have never SEEN the HPL version before...self-esteem...fading...

Really, how do we know that? Were was that symbol retrieved from? I'm curious to know...

[GHill]

Interestingly enough I never tried to describe in great detail things like the Elder Sign, Yellow Sign or the like, because like so many things I think its better left to the imagination.

Giles

[cynick]

Really, how do we know that? Were was that symbol retrieved from? I'm curious to know...

From a letter HPL wrote to one of his many correspondents. The exact details escape me, but it is somewhere in the collected letters.

[BradElliott]

HPL's version is the way to go!

I prefer his version.. it is indeed odd and not-quite-normal.

Then again, while I acknowledge our debt to Derleth, I really don't like his ideas or writing all that much. Ah well...

[Wolfbelly]

Odd and not quite normal? Come on, IT'S A FREAKIN' BRANCH!!!! Or, if it's not a branch, then it's half a set of antlers.

[carnage_lee]

I always thought that it wasn't the sign that was important but the ritual that was performed upon it. After all it is the 'magic' empowers the sign and not the sign itself.

As such the sign or sigil takes on less significance, except perhaps as a visual warning? A warning not necessarily aimed at any mythos critters either.

I prefer to think that an Elder sign is there to (visually) warn people and to enable a person (with the correct knowledge) to identify who en scribed the sigil. So Derleth's sign was inscribed by one school of 'wizards' and HPL's by another - therefore there are many variations of the elder sign in existence.

Whether or not they are effective is up to you.

As to which one I prefer - Derleth's interpretation... it has more of an arcane feel. HPL's version seems to be a bit 'Celtic' to me.

Lee

[cynick]

As to which one I prefer - Derleth's interpretation... it has more of an arcane feel.

Wouldn't that be because it's a pentagram?

[carnage_lee]

Wouldn't that be because it's a pentagram?

In a nutshell Yes.

HPL's just looks too mundane for me, it's a branch, or a leaf skeleton, or perhaps a rune (which gives it more interest).

Lee

[Wolfbelly]

In my opinion, the elder sign itself should be a disturbing image to view. Not disturbing because it's socially unacceptable, or 'out there,' but rather innately disturbing. I think that's the gist of HPL's books, of Cthulu, and all them other crazy fellas, and it should coincide with the elder sign itself.

However, if you look at HPL's sigil again, the one thats not on the stone, but rather on its own in that 'how to' page, and think of it as objects casting shadows, then you can get that aura of disturbingness. However, it's really hard to see just a bunch of lines as a three dimensional object, it needs more perspective clues.

[SandyPetersen]

The Lovecraft sign becomes more creepy when you think of it as the footprint or handprint of some entity, which is probably what it originated as.

Though I think that the various quite-complicated arcane signs printed in various ancient grimoires are kind of creepy too.

Anyone vote for the sigil that appears in Lucio Fulci's "The Beyond"? It's never named, but is arguably another candidate for the Elder Sign (though Fulci would probably have called it the Sign of Eibon).

[zomben]

I always thought that HPL's version of the Elder Sign might have been the texture left behind after an Elder Thing slapped its groping tentacles in mud or something similar.

It kind of makes sense that it would scare off the Shoggoths, etc. if they saw a big ET "footprint"... something they'd been conditioned to fear maybe?

[delrio]

Anyone vote for the sigil that appears in Lucio Fulci's "The Beyond"? It's never named, but is arguably another candidate for the Elder Sign (though Fulci would probably have called it the Sign of Eibon).

Is there an image of it anywhere on the web? (unfortunately I don't live near a movie store that rents cult horror flicks anymore).

I like your idea of it being a footprint/handprint, that does somehow make it a more creepy/powerful image.

Del Rio

[beckyg]

Odd and not quite normal? Come on, IT'S A FREAKIN' BRANCH!!!! Or, if it's not a branch, then it's half a set of antlers.

Love H.P. n' all, but I'm on Wolfbelly's side here. It looks like an oak leaf to me. Aesthetically, I like Derleth's best.

Let's face it, historically, the gods were made up by people, so anything made by a god is going to have human connotations attached to it. May as well go with what looks purtiest.