'Enemy of my enemy' alliances with mythos baddies?

[Scaevola]

I was reading through 'Dark Rivals', which involves a covert war between Arkham ghouls and a witch cult. I really like how the scenario teams up the investigators with the more monstrous faction. What with the ghouls being right there, breathing down your neck, the tension is very intimate--especially since the alliance is so obviously fragile, with many opportunities for the players (or the witch cult) to muss it up. At least from reading it, the scenario seems to do a great job of making the ghouls a) just human enough to make the possibility of such an alliance convincing, and b) much more scary and interesting, precisely *because* they act a little more like human beings than in most scenarios which involve them (at least, the scenarios I've read).

I would imagine there are *tons* of scenarios in which investigators unwittingly serve evil patrons, but I feel like I haven't seen very many investigator-facing alliances with mythos monsters or cultists. I feel like there's a lot of potential there, and probably a lot of room to try out new things with well-worn monsters and tropes. How harrowing would it be to team up with a proto-shoggoth to take down a coven of elder things, rather than vice-versa? Or help unleash flying polyps so they can destroy an especially evil cult of the Great Race? I'm sure the novelty would wear off quickly if you did this more than once or twice, but it would allow the investigators to see how some of these creatures think and strategize. Handled appropriately, seeing them up close might make them *more* alien and their motives even more unfathomable.

Are there other scenarios or adventures that present tentative alliances like this? What homebrew alliances have you explored? How did your players respond to the invitation for an alliance? Or did the players proposition the mythos faction? What developments arose from the alliance that you did not expect? What happened when the alliance was no longer needed, either by one faction or both?

[Careless]

Are there other scenarios or adventures that present tentative alliances like this? What homebrew alliances have you explored? How did your players respond to the invitation for an alliance? Or did the players proposition the mythos faction? What developments arose from the alliance that you did not expect? What happened when the alliance was no longer needed, either by one faction or both?

Part of the reason why one doesn't see too many "tentative alliance" scenarios crop up is that there is a kind prevailing opinion in certain quarters of the fandom that such situations somehow "robs" a bit of the horror from the situation experienced by the players.

From this perspective an encounter with the Mythos, really any part of the Mythos, should be an almost aesthetic/mystery-reveling encounter with the Great Unknown. Cue dramatic music and catch phrases like "THE HORROR, THE HORROR."

That being said, there is in fact a wealth of information provided by HPL himself regarding the Pre-Human Mythos wars and antagonistic bent of various different species vis-a-vis each other.

1.) The Mi-Go, the Fungi from Yuggoth have been portrayed in rather diverse writings and settings from the Strange Aeons supplement to a cornerstone of the Delta Green universe to a faction within CthulhuTech with a rather simple goal of self-aggrandizement for the species.

In short, the Mi-Go always seem to be cast as the "Young Turks" of the Mythos Cosmos,willing to step on other species and even Great Old Ones toes if it means achieving their own ends.

I believe one scenario had them purposely manipulating the orbit of the Moon in order to try and stave off the Stars from ever becoming Right.

2.) Independent Sorcerers/Monsters

There's a kind of distinction that has to be made about the guy whose summoning Deep Ones and hurling the Fist of Yog-Sothoth at one's players.

One group consists of Cultists, those who think that by serving their Great Old One/Outer God/whatever faithfully they will achieve some sort of end/Final reward/whatever that may or may not be actually beneficial to them.

The other group are Sorcerers. The lack the er... religious sensibilities of their Cultist cousins. If they "worship" one of the Outer Gods/Great Old Ones/whatever, its only due out of necessity.

ie: Its Quid Pro Quo.

Mythos Fiction tends to look toward the Serpent Men as the epitome of this trope. This is probably due to the diverse renditions regarding their behavior/origin/relationship to Yig that appeared in the writings of Robert E. Howard, Clark Ashton Smith, Lin Carter, and Zealia bishop.

Some Serpent Men truly bow down to Mighty Yig...or Tsathoggua in true reverence. And others (like the one in Mansions of Madness) are really skimming off the top of Yig's collection plate so to speak. Its those "independent thinkers" who are more than willing to cut a deal with Investigators if it means getting rid of a problem (usually a Mythos problem at that).

3.) The Elder Things

The Former Masters of the Universe - whose technology looks like magic and whose magic looks like technology. They were Old before even the other Mythos races were even in existence.

The whole story of "At the Mountains of Madness" chronicles their civilizations collapse upon the Earth and their perennial wars with Great Cthulhu, the Mi-go, and their own Shoggoth Slaves.

A number of "Future-thulhu" works like End Times or CthulhuTech actually posits a kind of working relationship between a certain segment of the human race and the Elder Things as a means of mutual survival against the oncoming forces of the other Mythos races. This viewpoint tends to be validated due to a certain passage within "At the Mountains of Madness" where Dyer compares the Elder Things to men - a literary move made by Lovecraft to elicit some sort of kinship from the reader before bringing out the horror of the Shoggoth.

Allow me to raise the Red Flag of Controversy for a second on that point - some people really hate it. As in it violates the "Mystery-Reveler/All Parts of the Mythos are Distant-Unknowable" viewpoint and so tend to write-off Dyer's account as that of a madman.

[Careless]

As for homebrew alliances - over the long years i've been a keeper i can point to a few trends amongst the various players i've seen.

1.) Capitalize on Ancient Hatreds

Eventually some member in the party acquires enough knowledge about the pre-history of the Earth and starts making connections. The Great Race was chased away by the Flying Polyps, the Brotherhood of the Yellow Sign vs. the Mi-Go, etc.etc.

Depending on the scenario and the resources at hand, it hasn't been too uncommon for members of the party to utilize that knowledge and make contact with the opposing party.
v
Amongst 3 different player groups, the trend i've always seen is "go with the Thing that seems a little more rational...and make sure not to trust it completely."

ie: You can't Negotiate with a Flying Polyp. You can with a member of the Great Race (but will he keep its promises?)

One particularly ingenious player in a 1920s campaign actually figured out two opposing parties goals, and engineered the situation that essentially forced the hand of one side to come down on the other in favor of the goals of the player group.

2.) Talk with the Ghouls

Being somewhat related to the human race and generally being of an independent nature (although there are Ghouls who do worship fell entities like Nyogtha), striking bargains of information with Ghouls is something that my players have not been adverse to.

Some official scenarios or background material does provide a support structure for this. "The Keepers of the Faith" described in Delta Green Countdown are under a very similar situation to that of the one outlined in Dark Rivals and are in need of allies.

3.) A Human Evil is Better than the Mythos

Although not quite what your asking for, there have been numerous occasions when players decided that going to unsavory character-types would be a much better alternative than dealing with the Mythos.

The Underworld/Criminal element is an obvious choice if the Mythos entity/entities they are at war with are somehow undercutting the local business. But i've seen tentative alliances occur between player groups and Satanists (not the Levy-types), Islamic Fundamentalists, members of the KKK, Witches (of the Neo-Pagan or Mythos variety), Nazis, Voodoo Cults, Fu Manchu and the Si-Fan, etc.etc.

[Orenda]

I actually posited something like this in reference to my own story I'm writing.

http://www.yog-sothoth.com/threads/2...-allies-or-PCs

At the heart of this story is the assumption that first, there can be cults (or societies that fall between Careless' definition of Cultists and Sorcerer) that are fairly decent human beings. They are rare and require a LOT of effort to prevent them going off the rails (espeicially in a time like the 20s, when a bit of benign animal sacrifice and speaking in Seneca could get you labelled "degenerate" and have you forcibly sterilized and institutionalized) but they are possible with a lot of work and a fair bit of well-meaning paranoia.

It also counts on Nyarlathotep having a plan to spread Humanity out to the stars for our ability to inflict massive, entertaining chaos, but that's another tale for another day.

There's also a slightly pro-Deep One slant, but that's just me.

But a bunch of Yig-cultists or serpent men joining up with the PCs... that was something that was mentioned.

[Blackmyron]

In the case of "Dark Rivals", I think it showcases that the ghouls are, in fact, not too removed from humanity.

Derleth certainly embraced the "use one part of the Mythos against another", although I don't recall Shrewsbury ever doing anything against Hastur... which makes me think that he was being manipulated.

[Skyman]

"Fear in a Bottle" comes to mind. It sets up a nice noir style of interaction.

I also ran a scenario where a player struck a deal(to momentarily save his life) with the beastie thing and pretty much set up the horror for the rest of the players for the remaining part of the night. This was not planned and turned out pretty wicked because the other players trusted him

[Careless]

In the case of "Dark Rivals", I think it showcases that the ghouls are, in fact, not too removed from humanity.

Derleth certainly embraced the "use one part of the Mythos against another", although I don't recall Shrewsbury ever doing anything against Hastur... which makes me think that he was being manipulated.

I think a number of us on these forums and elsewhere have pegged old Laban as an unwitting Hastur cultist.

Regarding the Ghouls: You know, even their portrayal in the source material wasn't that menacing when compared to all the other horrid beasties roaming about witch-haunted Arkham and points beyond.

Yes they killed Randolph Carter's friend for poking about their warrens, yes Pickman transmogrified into one.

And that's about it really. The most active we ever see them is in the Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath where Randolph Carter brokers a deal to lead an army of them against his enemies.

Now if that isn't first-class negotiation, i don't know what is.

[Fredde72]

"I also ran a scenario where a player struck a deal(to momentarily save his life) with the beastie thing and pretty much set up the horror for the rest of the players for the remaining part of the night. This was not planned and turned out pretty wicked because the other players trusted him

Please tell us more, it sounds like great mining material.

/ Fredrik

[Skyman]

Please tell us more, it sounds like great mining material.

/ Fredrik

Well without giving away too much. The beastie thing was more like a horrific sentient object that wanted to collect parts of certain individuals so it could complete something ghastly. The individual in question had gone to the basement and found the evil waiting for him. Before I could attack he starts to petition for his life. The reason why there was a pause in the attack was that the thing looks innocuous and pretty much tries to catch people by surprise or with thier own curiosity but the player fully believed a horror story by an NPC and believed that this was the horror in the story. I personally did not think my narrative during game play could elicit this response.

"Oh GOD don't ****ing kill me! I'll do anything. I can help you. I want to help you. I can get you others... just not me. Not my ****"

So he carried the beastie with him wrapped up. Lured a NPC hanging out with the group to her doom while dismembering and disposing of the body in a carpet in his dorm room while his room mate(another PC) was returning from a party. Of course the room mate gets suspicious about the rolled taco carpet. This leads to a redirection on his part..."Hey check this **** out I found it down stairs in the basement." The other player is attacked and barely survives.
My memory gets fuzzy here
So he then does the "Wow I wasn't expecting that. Hey you're lucky you survived." He then moves the carpet out of the room. I think out the window. The player then gets paired up with another player to go look for the thing...since he knows what it looks like. He KO'ed that player and runs back to get another player *victim.* At this point *Out of Character* the other players get hyper suspicious because they know somethings up because they were privy to the event OOC. They try to still play in character but refuse to follow him when he states that the other player is in trouble and he needs someone to go with him to help him. The remaining players state that they cannot leave their injured/immobilized friend behind without someone, preferably more than just one person. Another player rationalizes that the other character is probably dead by now so they should forget about him...OOC the KO'ed player explains in harsh terms what that player can do with certain parts of his anatomy. One of the players suggests that the corrupt player is being dominated by a spell or something but cannot come up with a solution.
SO one of the players decides to go find the friend in distress with an NPC. Thus leaving one player with the other corrupted player. After the other player leaves to find the player in distress, the corrupted player gives medical care to the immobilized player while the remaining player hovers behind him ready to do something like bludgeon or shoot him or something. The corrupted player then say's...
"I think if you help me it will let you live?"
The corrupted player then proceeds to skin the immobilized player alive. Which leads to the other player standing over him to have a WTF moment. From there the jig is up and only two people survive the scenario... Doesn't that sound crazy. I lost SAN just watching this unfold. As a GM I would like to say I had this planned but after the player made the deal I was just a guy in the audience.

[MGibster]

In my Trail of Cthulhu campaign the Investigators made a deal with the Shan. The Investigators agreed to help the Shan get off the planet in return for the Shan not harming the residents of a small upstate New York town. Unfortunately, the Investigators did not realize until it was too late that the Shan would kill everyone in town as they ascended into the heavens.

[Nerdnumber1]

Most mythos creatures aren't inherently manevolent to humanity, but on the other hand few if any see humans as much more than animals. Still, you might toss a treat to an obedient animal. I like to think that intelligent myths creatures are willing to deal, but only when they benefit at negligible cost. Don't have the beast stick out its neck, but giving information, knowledge, or a trinket or two to investigators opposing the creature's enemies would be a great deal for the entity, and even then the PC's will likely pay an additional cost.

In shadows of yog sothoth the players get the chance to free a Yithian from the enemy cult and it supplies them with lightning guns. It might have been masks. Dunwich also has a potentially helpful cult.

[Miihkali]

I would love to some day bring my players to a situation in which they should collaborate with the baddies to survive. Something like the villains summoning powerful creatures and awfully failing the binding. All the characters should combine their firepower to have any hope that at least some of them survive... Perhaps in an ancient temple...

Feel free to give suggestions!

[Nerdnumber1]

"Turns out that there was a mistranslation as to how many sacrifices the great one required and we came up short. Myself and those with meare of a faction whose primary concern was the betterment of our own power over the freedom of our god. We have decided to not act as sacrifices and attempt to banish the god before it takes us.... oh, and it probably will eat the world once it's done with us."