Maps: How much is enough?

[Utech]

I'm working on the handouts for a collection of adventures. Soon I'll be moving on to the maps - probably my least favorite thing to create. Mostly because I'm pretty awful at it.

So I'm wondering how much I should work on them. I've paid for publications with very sketchy (almost primitive) maps. And I've seen some amazing maps recently.

What would you be hoping for?

A few more details. The maps are of very small towns, collections of buildings, and Native American settlements in the American West in 1860.

[Mr. Bill]

I've never felt that a map really adds anything to immersion unless it's a really all-out, period, professional-looking, real-ass map, which I wouldn't deem worth anywhere near as much effort as it would require. So if you're not hitting that level, all you really need the map for is a sense of distance and where things vaguely kinda-sorta are. A hastily-sketched approximation on a sheet of printer paper is really all you need, unless your players are far pickier than mine. Unless my players are inside a building, I dispense with the maps altogether and just describe stuff, with a few exceptions. In a tunnel or tomb-like environment, I make them keep their own map if they want to, to preserve the chance of the investigators getting hopefully lost. Even in a house or something, I like to give the proceedings a real feeling of unease and suspense and, you know, investigation, so I draw the room the investigators are in, along with all exits and a few (very) rough interior details (desk here, bed here, etc), then when they head through a door, I add the next room to the map, etc.

So yeah, at least in my games, maps don't play a huge role. This ain't D&D.

[wombat1]

I use maps mainly to help me visualize where things are in a location, or to help me explain so that the players can visualize in which case I redraw it for them on a white board or piece of paper--here is the magic dingus, there is the clue, over there the nogoodnik whasis. The game is different from the standard dungeon crawl. where precise visibility ranges may be an issue--it doesn't matter whether great Kewlthuloo is at 10 feet away or 11. Bad things happen.

When the players have something of their own, I may take more pains on the map or encourage them to make their own.

Also, maps of regions, like the Roman Empire, or some such, are easy enough to come by, so I simply print or photocopy these as they are wanted.

So in my last session, I pinned a map of the Roman Empire (the one in the Cthulhu Invictus module) to a cork board. The action was set on the border of Germania Superior and Germania Inferior, at a place called Bingium, on a little island. The Rhein River makes a bend between two very steep hills. (Like this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ngen_above.jpg)

I drew a little sketch map of the area on the white board.

There is a little tower. I drew two squares on the whiteboard, one for the upper floor, one for the lower, right in front of the players. I drew in the furniture.

And so on--the maps can be absolutely appalling but the visual aid helps no end.

As for western maps, late 1800's, "The Official Military Atlas of the Civil War," (New York: Fairfax Press, 1978 ) a reprint of the Atlas that was published with the official records in the 1890's, has a very detailed set of regional maps for the territories and the area over which the war was fought in addition to the battlefield maps. It is not a complete atlas of the US in the 1860's but it is not a bad source.

[Skyman]

Is this for a publication? If so then I would invest in photoshop. Maps help players and Keepers attain perspective of the setting. Secondly it can give a sense of atmosphere. Maps drive me up the wall but other people need them to take what you wrote and place them visually in a context that is more tangible than ones imagination. Plus a shared map allows everyone to organize actions in a digestible manner.

Photoshop helps in taking something that I might have crudely designed and makes it sharp. I can insert names and signs without legibility issues that I would encounter if I had hand wrote them.

If not for publication or for other GMs to use then whatever you can do is ok.

How many? If the location is going to have combat or you think the players will be in a chase then I would have a map to give them an idea of what they have to work with. If the location has multiple...more than 3...encounter spots of interest then I would suggest having a map. If the conditions are awkward for verbal description to capture then use a map. Not every encounter area needs a map mostly if it is only color or information gathering. This is from the top of my head. I hope this helps.

[Utech]

Is this for a publication? If so then I would invest in photoshop.

I'll be uploading it to Dropbox for folks to download and do with as they see fit according to ye olde creative commons. I certainly won't be making any money off of it - just the satisfaction of paying something forward to all the good Yoggies. (Heck, even those who shudder at the "good" moniker.)

I'd rather not invest in photoshop or any other program. Money is tight. So tight I really can't manage to be a patron here and keep my "decent father" card. What I can do is spend time on my train commute writing and then share and hope it helps somebody.

[Utech]

Thanks all for the responses. I'll try to keep the maps minimal but make enough use of the surveys, maps, and pictures of the time to provide the proper atmosphere. Many thanks, especially, for the atlas recommendation. I didn't have that among my sources.

[Steff Worthington]

Thanks all for the responses. I'll try to keep the maps minimal but make enough use of the surveys, maps, and pictures of the time to provide the proper atmosphere. Many thanks, especially, for the atlas recommendation. I didn't have that among my sources.

Hiring someone like me (if I was available) would be a great deal cheaper then buying Photoshop. Half of this thread made me quite sad. Map artists seldom get much love but to hear some of the comments makes me glum and incredulous in equal measure. Of course, this is all meaningless if its for private use..

However, if you intend to disseminate freely (a laudable enterprise) then critics seem to forget things are free and will be the first to say "The art is really bad!". Sometimes, it can de-rail your focus and people may just focus on the bad art. Good art (if it isn't cover art) seems to fade into the background and become one with the book. It lends to the overall quality of the book but seldom does it make readers stop and judge the art 'ex-context'.

One further thing, if you intend to disseminate images freely with your book, be they 'rights free' or just nicked from Google, you STILL need permission. Most images on CC have addenda and 'rights requirements' even if its just a mention. Keep records of your image uses. make a habit of storing the link, and rights requirements on notepad next to the image so you can refer or consult later. Free distribution can get you into hot water still. You are using someones art and they deserve to be recompensed. Artists make little enough as it is these days (most of the times its usually below minimum wage in terms of time spent) so be aware before using other peoples fonts and images

There's a reason Google Maps places 'phantoms' in its images

Not having a go. Just some friendly advice.

[LoneKharnivore]

Half of this thread made me quite sad. Map artists seldom get much love but to hear some of the comments makes me glum and incredulous in equal measure.

I love maps; a map at the beginning of a book means I will definitely read it, and created cartography is just as fascinating as a constructed language. In a Cthulhu supplement I would want as many, and as detailed, maps as possible - how can I communicate the details of a location to my players if I don't have a clear mental picture myself?

That being said, I very much agree with Mr Bill that actually in the course of a game, maps can get in the way, slow the game down (if drawn out) and foster "positional" combat rather than creative solutions. A simple, hand-drawn outline version of the incredibly beautiful, detailed map in the book is the way I go - and then only interiors.

[dce]

Hiring someone like me (if I was available) would be a great deal cheaper then buying Photoshop. Half of this thread made me quite sad. Map artists seldom get much love but to hear some of the comments makes me glum and incredulous in equal measure. Of course, this is all meaningless if its for private use..

However, if you intend to disseminate freely (a laudable enterprise) then critics seem to forget things are free and will be the first to say "The art is really bad!". Sometimes, it can de-rail your focus and people may just focus on the bad art. Good art (if it isn't cover art) seems to fade into the background and become one with the book. It lends to the overall quality of the book but seldom does it make readers stop and judge the art 'ex-context'.

I'd have to say I agree with Steff's sentiment. Maps (like handouts, which is what I spend a lot of my time designing) fall into a category of design elements that serve a dual purpose: to provide basic information, and also to provide ornamentation. If you're putting together a game for you and you buddies to play, and don't ever plan it to go any further ... sure, the "information" aspect is probably the majority of your concern. But as soon as you want to share your stuff with someone else -- and particularly if you want to charge money for it -- the aesthetic qualities of these things does become important for two reasons:

(1) most readers equate ugly art with low production values and a lack of effort, and will discard material (sometimes unjustifiedly) based on that, and
(2) if done well, a nicely presented map or handout can add lots to a sense of immersion for players

BTW These two points are a big part of why I have been taking old "text-only" scenarios from back-in-the-day and resurrecting them in glossy full-art PDF form (although my map-work is nowhere near Steff's quality)

So ... how important is this stuff? ... Depends on who you want to share your material with. Hand-drawn scribble on the back of a beer coaster might be ok for your local group, but if I saw it turn up in a published book (except maybe a MULA Mono: some of these have some pretty dire artwork) I'd be asking questions ...

And BTW, to throw my 2c in about software tools ... I'd recommend Adobe Illustrator over Photoshop for things like maps *if* you know how to drive it.


Dean (from Adelaide)

[Utech]

Wow. Lots of good points.

I agree completely that a good map is a beautiful and very helpful thing. I remember a Dragonlance module with a 3-D map that blew my teenage mind and geared me up to play. Unfortunately, I don't have the ability to make that sort of map. I will certainly do all I can to produce something enticing.

A quick note on copyright... I assure you I am taking only images in the public domain and checking quite carefully. Actually, I have one creative commons image so far and it is attributed as directed. I take this stuff very seriously because I write the occasional textbook and would be furious if my work was copied improperly. One advantage to setting the adventures in 1860 is the relative probability that any photos of that time are now in the public domain. Still, one must be careful and I appreciate the caution.

[Debauchery]

Maps are useful but not essential. Good keepers will quickly construct 'mud maps' during encounters where it is important to know where they stand tactically in relation to enemies. They are also good in helping players visualise complex tunnel systems with multiple entry and exit points. They can be done in 30 seconds.

If you want to through the odd map in for immersion, they can sometimes 'find' a map in a study drawer with a certain landmark, building or feature circled or with notes scribbled next to them by a person of interest. There are good sources on the internet for road maps relating to towns all over the US and UK in the 1920s, so I occasionally use those. Best of luck and have fun!

[Skyman]

I just want to make myself a bit more clear just so it is not mis-understood. When I said maps drive me up the wall. I meant the creation of (very nice) maps drives me up the wall. Sorry if that might have sounded like I'm a map h8tr. I'm not. I just had a hard time making them when I was doing the Chaosium monograph contests. And when I did do them they looked crude and poorly legible. I have a great appreciation for those gifted in the ways of map making/ imagination cartographing such as Stef. I had a friend do mine for awhile and he eventually showed me the advantages of photoshop. Which is why I suggested it. Adobe Illustrator would probably float my boat to if I learned it. So yeah make friends with Stef or someone here who is willing to give it a go. Networking here is not a bad idea...just saying

[mosswood17]

Here is an example map I drew for my Call of Cthulhu game. It is probably the best example I have so far. I like the simpler maps for CoC, like in the old adventure modules that look almost handdrawn. I went for a sort of aged look. I think the shadows add a lot. It makes things look eerie. These are the sorts of maps I would like.

[mosswood17]

Here is one more. A small town in Indiana at night.

[Utech]

Beautiful maps Mosswood17! I'm really not sure I'll be able to manage anything of that quality. What can I say? I'll probably end up doing nothing better than can be found in The Great Old Ones and similar collections of the time. Man. This is a whole skill set I'll need to work on one of these years.