Suggestion for very first game for new gamers?

[JeffOkamoto]

I've got the opportunity to introduce two people to tabletop RPGs. They're both familiar with MMORPGs, plus the usual video game experiences, but have not done any pencil-and-paper RPGs.

I am soliciting the collective wisdom of this group for suggestions as to game systems. An absolute prerequisite is a pre-written scenario for the system, preferably written as an introductory scenario. The setting and complexity are less important, but "simpler and familiar" would be a bonus.

My only concern about using CoC or ToC (not DG, I don't own it) is that the setting and mood are pretty different from what I understand the MMORPGs are like. Those seem more D&Dish (though I'm not going to run 4E either).

[FNH]

It will be a bit of a mind warp switching from one of those games to investigative system!

BRP (CoC) is very easy for people to wrap their mind around, although the stat generation part of it can put people off, it's quite a hump trying to understand all those numbers. The allocation of skill points is easily done and easily comprehended, but the rolling of stats can bog people down. Coming from a computer game where it's switch on and go to a game where you spend an evening creating characters can be a real downer.

Here's what I suggest. Go with CoC(BRP). Before the first session sound out the players for what profession they'd like. Then you pre-gen the stats and leave them to allocate the skill points and a name. That way you introduce them to the character design and can get into a game quickly.

[JonHook]

Hi Jeff,

I think posting this question here will open you up to a vast majority of Call of Cthulhu as a response... and I won't disappoint by suggesting anything else.

I think if they are old MMORPG vets, then if you run a pen/paper RPG that is similar to a MMO, then they may be disappointed in the experience and yearn to return to their computers. No, if you go with CoC and go with an investigative game, they may be more excited by the vast change of venue.

And thus, if you're going to introduce them to CoC, then you must absolutely do it with The Haunting!!! It's damn-near a must when it comes to the baptism that is Call of Cthulhu, (despite being devoid of any actual Mythos elements).

[JeffOkamoto]

A concern I have with The Haunting (and indirectly with CoC) is that with only two characters, the chances of missing an important investigative roll is quite high. And with as few locations as exist in the scenario, it's not that you can put the clues into another location to "make up" for missing one in another location.

(Which is why I might lean towards ToC rather than CoC if I stay with Cthulhu).

[Max_Writer]

Definitely Call of Cthulhu if you want to run for brand-new players. The game system is simple and intuitive, and it's pretty much the best segue game system out there that I know of. It's easy for players to understand and simple for them to quickly grasp exactly what they can and can't do very well. Character creation is also quick and painless.

I also have problems with games that don't give any attributes for basic physical and mental abilities (like ToC) personally.

The Edge of Darkness is another good introductory scenario in the game book if you don't want to run The Haunting (but you should try to run the latter at some date - it is excellent).

[Kooris]

A concern I have with The Haunting (and indirectly with CoC) is that with only two characters, the chances of missing an important investigative roll is quite high. And with as few locations as exist in the scenario, it's not that you can put the clues into another location to "make up" for missing one in another location.

(Which is why I might lean towards ToC rather than CoC if I stay with Cthulhu).

It might be a bit of an idea to let your players use 2 investigators each, it means things get a bit metagamey but it gives them that second chance to make the rolls. I'll admit I've never seen it done in CoC (I haven't gotten rount to running a game yet but hopefully I will soon) but it works for my players when we run D&D (except for the one character made specifically to handle anything remotely related to charisma, how I loathe it >_<).

Honestly I'd have recommended D&D 4th Edition, at least 1 of my friends has called it WoW on paper, but it's got a few big problems. You pretty much need a grid to play because it's kinda hard to translate into the theatre of the mind (which seems to be really easy with CoC), it's ridonkulously hard to kill a character (death houserules are a must as well as a limit on the number of short rests the party can do in a day) each class feels a bit samey (they all seem to get very similar powers but some have different ranges in PHB1), it gets metagamey if you play with the grid and it might be a little harder to roleplay with (but it's not impossible).

Spoiler:

As a DM I think I'm forced to say this, but 4E is worth a shot, even if you do it in TotM style. There's a full adventure and pre-genned characters on the D&D website to let you give it a test run instead of going out and buying a load of stuff before you decide whether you like it or not.

Spoiler:

The most annoying thing about D&D 4E is the way long time fans reacted when they heard it was simplified to be more accessible to new players (How dare a company try and make something more accessible in an attempt to attract new customers! It's almost as though they were trying to *big gasp* MAKE MONEY!) even though they probably would have kept playing whatever edition they liked and not bought the 4E stuff. Instead of shrugging it off and ignoring it, some long time fans went nuts about how D&D was "Ru1N3D 4Ev@!", as if the new edition had robbed them of something they'd had before, even though they still had all their old books, journals, notes, maps, etc (unless the release of 4E triggered a self destruct mechanism in all earlier D&D products). I've played my dads old AD&D and a bit of 3rdE, but to be perfectly honest I prefer 4E to the other two, and there's nothing stopping me from incorporating mechanics from previous editions, so I really don't know why people have such a big problem with 4E.

That said I hope you and your players have a good time with CoC. If you want a bit of a pointer give the Miskatonic University Podcast a listen, the first few episodes focus on character creation which helped me out a lot (even though I've nominated myself as keeper, it's always handy to know how character creation works to speed it up and get into the action quickly + it clarifies some of the rules you could miss out on first time).

[PhoneCallOfCthulhu]

My two best introductory scenarios so far have been "The Crack'd and Crook'd Manse" in Mansions of Madness and "A Little Knowledge" in Miskatonic University.
Also if they're more action oriented (which might be the case coming from MMORPGs and video games in general), "Horrors from Yuggoth" by Goodman Games might fit the bill perfectly. It is a rescue operation north of the coast of Svalbard.

[BaneOfNyarlathotep]

And thus, if you're going to introduce them to CoC, then you must absolutely do it with The Haunting!!! It's damn-near a must when it comes to the baptism that is Call of Cthulhu, (despite being devoid of any actual Mythos elements).

Agree about this, except for the idea that it's devoid of any Mythos elements.

Spoiler:

It draws, to me, elements from The Shunned House (both the central house and the basement in the house) and The Case of Charles Dexter Ward (the evil sorcerer and uncovering of centuries-old plans). Plus, the elements involved can be changed accordingly to be more or less generic - it's not too hard to put a tentacle here or there and give players something to identify with.

[Emrys]

I'd recommend Edge of Darkness over The Haunting - the investigators have a better chance of success and an initial success might make further play more likely (in which case, by all means inflict The Haunting on them!)

As others have said, two investigators are likely to struggle with either scenario. One option, if you can't persuade anyone else to join the fun, would be to give each of the investigators an associated NPC (such as their driver, valet, maid, bodyguard, etc. - ideally not someone their character would be overly attached to) to order about/hide behind/send into a room first. You'd create the NPCs and could use them to fill out any key skills missing from the investigators' profiles.

[Badger]

I think the answer to your question is dependent on finding out *why* they want to play a tabletop RPG. Do they want to play one so that they can do dungeon grinds, kill monsters, gain XP, etc.? Essentially keeping the familiarity of a fantasy MMORPG? Then definitely have them go with Pathfinder or D&D 4e.

But if they're interested in other genres (and definitely ask them this question), then you have more options to choose from. Naturally i would suggest CoC, but maybe they don't want to do horror, or investigative-type work. They might be more keen on something in a more sci-fi vein, or superheroes, or something else.

I think once you know what your players are looking for, we can more accurately answer your question.

-=b

[AnaWE]

That can be easily fixed by having a NPC find the clues. Remember that CoC is more story oriented than stats and number crunching.

Have some NPC friends or family of the investigator introduced early on. Maybe their siblings, wife, son, whatever.

If the investigators failed at finding the clues, maybe the wife though the husband was having an affair, followed him and found the clue after he left? Maybe the brother of one of the PC is always competing with him and is trying to outsmart him?

Just as long as you don't give them the clues on a plater, it's okay. What I mean is make some negative consequences for getting these clues. But in the form of a sub-plot. Maybe the wife ask for divorce if the PC keeps going out at night like this? or she follows him and gets killed by Corbitt? Or the brother joins them when they search the house and shoot one of them when he's freaked out? Or he goes to the man who hired the PC and tries to be put in charge of the investigation?

[Max_Writer]

Actually, the Haunting, the research is pretty pointless. Yes, it can point you towards the basement and yes, it makes for some neat and creepy background, but in the end, you simply destroy Corbitt (or are destroyed by him) in melee or with fire. None of the research is particularly necessary or needed (say to know HOW to destroy Corbitt). I'm not criticizing the scenario as I think it's brilliant and a great start to a campaign, but in this particular case, the background information gives no help or warning of what Corbitt has become or how to fight him.

That's what I love about CoC, each scenario can be completely different.

[BaneOfNyarlathotep]

Actually, the Haunting, the research is pretty pointless. Yes, it can point you towards the basement and yes, it makes for some neat and creepy background, but in the end, you simply destroy Corbitt (or are destroyed by him) in melee or with fire. None of the research is particularly necessary or needed (say to know HOW to destroy Corbitt). I'm not criticizing the scenario as I think it's brilliant and a great start to a campaign, but in this particular case, the background information gives no help or warning of what Corbitt has become or how to fight him.

That's what I love about CoC, each scenario can be completely different.

It still introduces people to the library mechanic and satisfies their curiosity about the happenings of the house.

[Chad Out of Space]

Hello Jeff -- I think you should consider running Cthulhu Dark to introduce new players to investigative horror role play. Use the alternate "Harm Die" rule if you want to get them used to hit points. The default rules say that if you fight the mythos you die, thus avoiding combat mechanics and encouraging role play solutions. But having a Harm Die might keep the story from being too bleak for beginners.

You can easily run any pre-written Call of Cthulhu adventure using Cthulhu Dark. "Crack'd and Crook'd Manse" from Mansions of Madness is excellent if you've got that on hand. "The Haunting" really is a good beginner adventure, though I know you must be tired of hearing that by now. Mostly, I'd suggest running your new players in an adventure you're already very familiar with. Nothing kills the mood for new players like flipping through an adventure book or having to "ret con" because you missed something earlier.

Advantages:
-- Character creation, often a barrier to those new to pencil and paper RPG, is nearly instant in Cthulhu Dark.
-- It introduces a simple "sanity" mechanic that comes into play frequently.
-- You can't miss a core clue by failing a Spot Hidden, Fast Talk or Library Use roll.*
-- It focuses the session on role play and storytelling, which will make new players into better players when they try crunchier systems later on.

* Much has already been written about this, but it bears repeating that players should never miss important information due to a failed roll. I played and Keeper'd for years before this sunk in. In CoC, you can easily avoid doing this. When players fail their Library roll on a plot-driving clue, tell them the minimum information that they need to know (an address, a name, etc.), and withhold only "deeper background" that they might come in contact with later. "Failed your Spot Hidden? Well, all I can tell you is that you find a trapdoor under the rug."

If you don't want to introduce them to a horror game right away, I might suggest Altars and Archetypes, a free rules-light system for the fantasy genre. Again, find a favorite fantasy module that you know very well, and run it with the rules-light system. I really think it's a good move to start with lean mechanics -- not because new players can't handle crunchy rules, but because it trains them to focus on character, dialogue and creative problem-solving. If they don't like those elements, paper-and-pencil RPGs won't ever be for them.