In today's security environment, how does one travel by air with a firearm, specifically a handgun?
In today's security environment, how does one travel by air with a firearm, specifically a handgun?
"Two in the head, you know he's dead." <heh-heh>
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With great difficulty ;-p
TSA has a website on the subject regarding internal traffic (http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtrav...rial_1666.shtm). I regularly travel internationally and I've never seen anyone get pulled out of line for a (real) firearm so far. I assume most people are smart enough not to try.
~ Britannia Waives The Rules ~
It is not hard to travel with them, aside from annoying extra baggage claims. You can take hunting rifles overseas to alot of countries but the paperwork for that will vary from country to country and different airlines will have different policies. In the 1980s and 90s in the US, there were times I remember the stewardess bringing the unloaded (of course) hunting rifle back into regular passanger seating area for you to watch your own item because the storage area near the cabin was too full.
Also there is no prohibition against carrying guns onto charter flights, aside from company policies.
As Mr_Mitts' link point out, the firearm needs to be in a hard sided, locked case and can be checked. I've sent folks on jobs under military orders where they have to hand the locked case containing their issued 9mm Beretta to the flight crew. The case is kept in the cockpit.
We've done this with US domestic airlines and international airlines. It just takes prior coordination, military orders, and the appropriate ID (whatever the country clearance requires).
What kind of records of traveling with a weapon would there be?
Second-hand knowledge via an associate: the airline keeps a record and TSA, who have to pop the luggage and look for the "orange ticket" inside (their words, not mine - a tag or slip that catalogues the item, maybe?) register it too. Presumably this gets put into some big computer index for DoHS. The weapon doesn't seem to be so well catalogued when it gets gobbed out the other end; a quick internet search shows some prides-and-joy are just thrown on the carousel with the other baggage...Originally Posted by The_Tatterdemalion_King
Addendum: after a bit more trawling, local and tribal law-enforcement officers are allowed to transport a prisoner or otherwise travel on official business armed if their agency is both a member of NLETS (National Law Enforcement Telecom Service, http://www.nlets.org/) and NLETS is informed before they travel. Officers must have also completed the mandatory 2-hour "Law Enforcement Officers Flying Armed" training course. Since the FAA's a federal agency anyway, federal agents already authorised to carry guns are - supposedly - not required to fill out any paperwork and just inform the check-in desk, wave their gun to TSA, and waltz through. Go figure.
Oh, and to put an extra crimp on your day: pistol-packers aren't allowed to have imbibed alcohol in the last eight hours, drink on the flight, or let their guns physically leave their person (so no stuffing them in overhead lockers) - plus:
(v) {Airlines must} Notify the pilot in command and other appropriate crewmembers, of the location of each armed LEO {Law Enforcement Officer} aboard the aircraft. Notify any other armed LEO of the location of each armed LEO, including FAM's {Federal Air Marshals}. Under circumstances described in the security program, the aircraft operator must not close the doors until the notification is complete.
Last edited by mr_mitts; 8th April 2012 at 09:14 PM. Reason: Gratuitous follow-up info
~ Britannia Waives The Rules ~
Also never going shooting the morning of an international flight. I found out the hard way about how tight an international screen could be. The got the residue from swaps on my boots and my belt. A pleasant time was provided by the TSA for about 4 hours. They went through every electronic item I had, made me open the tins of food I was carrying as well So after I missed my flight I did not even get a sorry.
I've often wondered what legal powers those TSA [expletive deleted] have. I mean once you miss your flight, why not just walk away. They're not cops, so could they hold you. I know a lot of their power is that they act like cops, not that they are cops. Don't they have to call cops to actually arrest you?
Once you hand your ticket to the guy at the desk and step "sky-side" toward the metal detectors you're in the domain of the Federal Aviation Authority, not an individual state; TSA, as hired-hand "federal deputies", have every right to arrest you. Before you step through that's a local police problem, true, but I'm pretty sure TSA officers are allowed to arrest you so long as they turn you over at the earliest opportunity.
I seriously would not recommend running from or ignoring a TSA officer no matter how belligerent they are. I can't speak for all of them, but a lot are all too happy to get a chance at drawing their underused Glocks on some unlucky sap - something I have personal experience of and a serious (dis)respect for.
Addenda: so apparently TSA officers aren't armed (except with tazers)? Who the hell the guys with Glocks and TSA uniforms were back in Philadelphia International, Dec 2005 I have no idea... Bronsons probably. Anyone have any idea?
Last edited by mr_mitts; 9th April 2012 at 09:25 AM.
~ Britannia Waives The Rules ~
To the UK and within the EU (and i got this info 2nd hand) an officer of an internationally recognised agency can board an aircraft with his case in the hold and retrieve it from a police officer at the airport once he leaves the plane (the gun is checked by local officials). A mate told me though that police and security forces operating with the full cooperation of the host nation will requisition a firearm at the destination as opposed to taking one on the plane. Almost all of the EU states are reasonably relaxed about this apart from the UK where, because regular police officers and the security services are mostly unarmed, the visitor has to go through some stringent checks and is always shadowed if he's armed. Oddly, UK police officers are more armed when they go abroad to help with investigations. There are exceptions though. Once my mate Mike went across the border of Austria & Croatia and declared his firearm at the border (He was a police officer with UNPROFOR) and the guard said "So? I'd take an arsenal if I could."
Not sure how much of the above is true as it came from a mate when he was quite drunk. Pinch of salt.
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I think, based on the recent experience of Senator Rand Paul in Kentucky getting detained on his way to a session of Congress, that the TSA has an inflated view of its authority. I am also not entirely certain that it is vested with law enforcement powers (as opposed to the authority to screen luggage) at airports by an Act of Congress; it may have taken up these powers by regulatory fiat. Still, until they either go too far, or some brave soul spends the next ten years litigating the matter in the Federal court system, they are part of the furniture.
That said, we drift a bit from the topic. The TSA has a website which seems to describe what one can and cannot do fairly well, and has a section about firearms.
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtrav...d-items.shtm#6
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtrav...rial_1666.shtm
And, of course, Saturday Night Live summed it up perfectly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gspzb_k1FAE
So off you go on a trip. Have fun. Don't forget to wear clean socks, because you can be sure your footwear will be thoroughly inspected.
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