Example of Combat

[sempai31]

Hello, can you explain to me the way to managea fight between 3 PC with guns and a ghoul?
Which one act in first and the rest of the fight round by round.
Thanks a lot!

[PelgranePress]

Hello, can you explain to me the way to managea fight between 3 PC with guns and a goulh?
Which one act in first and the rest of the fight round by round.
Thanks a lot!

A single ghoul won't stand much chance against three adventurers, but might take one of them down. I'm using a random die roller.

We'll assume it's Pulp rather than Purist.

Dramatis Personae
The consumptive Professor Oberon Lankwiller
Player: Larry
Health 5, [no skill in Firearms], Scuffling 4
Weapon: Webley revolver +0
Hit Threshold: 3

The brash Tag Hunter
Player: Tina
Health 13, Firearms 10, Weapons 8, Scuffling 2
Weapons: Remington M32 double barreled shotgun +1 (+2 point blank, +1 when fired both barrells), machette +0
Hit Threshold: 4 (Athletics is greater than eight)

The zesty Anabelle Swift
Player: Andrew
Health 10, Firearms 8, Scuffling 6, Weapons 4
Weapons: Twin Colt Revolvers +0 (You can fire two revolvers in a Pulp game if your Firearms is 5+), hat pin (-1).

The Ghoul
Health 9, Health 7, Scuffling 9
Hit Threshold: 4 (5 underground)
Weapon: two claws +1 and a bite +0. Two bites in a row means it latches on.

The Investigators are cautiously exploring a tunnel which runs under the Arkham municipal burial ground. They disturb a ghoul which is sucking the marrow from some cracked bones, partially concealed behind a stone slab.
They must all make a 4-point Stability roll when they see the ghoul (you see a supernatural creature up close. After Stability rolls, a combat ensues.

The order of action is determined at the beginning of combat, just once, according to the characters' current pool in their chosen method of combat. This gives us:

Tag
The Ghoul
Anabelle
The Prof (he has no Firearms skill so has to decide in advance what to do. He chooses "shoot the Ghoul")

Round 1
Tag gives the ghoul both barrels at point blank range. It has partial cover, so that's +0 (see p. 64). The Ghoul has a Hit Threshold of 5, so Tina spends four points from the Firearms pool to ensure a hit. She rolls a 2 for damage, +4 for the double barreled shotgun fired at point-blank range. The Ghoul's Health tumbles to 3.

The Ghoul launches itself at Tag, and makes three consecutive attacks. It could have divided its attacks between opponents if it preferred.

The Keeper spends 2 points from Scuffling on the first claw and rolls a 3 making 5, a hit for 4 damage. He spends 2 on the second claw, rolls a 5, another hit for 5 damage. Then it's a bite (2-point spend and 5 damage). The Ghoul's Scuffling is now 3. Tag's Health is now -1 - Hurt. In theory, Tag must make a Conciousness roll but the Difficulty is 1 - an automatic success.

Annabelle wants to distract the creature from its feast, so she jabs it with her hat pin, spending all of her 4 Weapons points to ensure a hit. She rolls a 3, causing 1 point of damage (you can effectively miss or do no damage with lesser weapons and fists). The Ghoul has 2 Health points left.

The Professor closes his eyes and squeezes the trigger of the unfamiliar Webley. He has no Firearms skill (see p. 60 sidebar), and unfortunately rolls a 1. The Keeper decides that he shoots himself in the foot. He rolls a 3 - minus 2 because of his unfamiliarity - knocking his Health down to 4.

Round 2
Tag frantically wrestles with the ghoul, trying to hold its festering mouth away from his face. That's Scuffling. He spends his remaining 2 points on his roll. The Difficulty is the ghoul's Hit Threshold (5) plus 1 because Tag is wounded. He needs a 6. He rolls a 2 plus the 2 for his Scuffling, a 4 - not enough. It's not looking good for Tag

The Keeper decides to spend 2 on a ghoul claw roll to finish off Tag. He rolls a 1 - making 3, a miss. He spends 0 on the next roll and gets another 1. He spends the final point on the bite, rolling a 6. As this is is second succesful bite attack, he does double damage (see p. 133 for the ghoul). He rolls a 2, +1 for the bite for a total of 6. Tag's Health tumbles to -7. Tina opts not to make a Conciousness roll for Tag (which would require Health expenditure) and Tag falls into merciful oblivion. He is Seriously Wounded, and requires First Aid and hospitalisation if he survives.

Annabelle opts to fire both pistols at the creature (Pulp). She spends a Firearms point to do this. She spends 3 points on the each roll (as they are imulataneous Andrew needs to decide before rolling both dice), and she rolls 6 and 6 doing 3 points and 1 point of damage. The ghoul only had two points of Health, so it is down.

Larry opt to spends two points of the Professor's First Aid to stabilise Tag. If they can get him out of the crypt, Tag needs to spend a week in hospital recuperating.

[sempai31]

Thanks a lot for this so complete explaination!!!!!!!!
THANKS A LOT!!!

[PelgranePress]

Thanks a lot for this so complete explaination!!!!!!!!
THANKS A LOT!!!

My pleasure. If there is any further info you need, let me know.

[WatsonSE]

The example above highlights combat as simple tests. The rule book states that fights shall be using contests instead of simple tests (page 60-61). Would it be possible to have a [short] example of how that would work? Preferably both melee and ranged combat.

I have written a suggestion here, but I would like to hear the official version.

[PelgranePress]

The example above highlights combat as simple tests. The rule book states that fights shall be using contests instead of simple tests (page 60-61). Would it be possible to have a [short] example of how that would work? Preferably both melee and ranged combat.

I have written a suggestion here, but I would like to hear the official version.

Contests between two characters are handled just as they are for three (except for order of action), as described on page 60. If there is any misleading language there which makes you think otherwise, please let me know.

[WatsonSE]

What I mean is why the fight against the ghoul is not handled as a contest, when the rules specifically "Scuffling vs Scuffling" as an example of combat. The rules even gives "Firearms vs Firearms" as an example.

Also, I would like to get this section from the rules explained (it doesn't look like it was used in the fight against the ghoul above).

"A contest proceeds between the two abilities. When combatants using the Scuffling, Weapons, or Firearms abilities roll well, they get the opportunity to deal damage to their opponents".

Thanks!

[GBSteve]

Combat contests are slightly different in that you take damage if the other side succeeds and you don't lose automatically if you fail your roll, you just don't do damage.

We have used scuffling contest for things like preventing a PC from shooting himself or forcing another PC to stab someone. In these, you take it in turns rolling and the first one to miss loses.

[GrahamW]

Yes, it's a special sort of contest. (Or, alternatively interpreted, it's not really a contest, in the exact sense of other contests).

Graham

[PelgranePress]

What I mean is why the fight against the ghoul is not handled as a contest, when the rules specifically "Scuffling vs Scuffling" as an example of combat. The rules even gives "Firearms vs Firearms" as an example.

Also, I would like to get this section from the rules explained (it doesn't look like it was used in the fight against the ghoul above).

"A contest proceeds between the two abilities. When combatants using the Scuffling, Weapons, or Firearms abilities roll well, they get the opportunity to deal damage to their opponents".

Thanks!

I followed the rules on page 61 exactly, at least I think so, free-for-all combat.

The use of the word "contest" might be misleading on page 60, I suppose. It's a "slightly more complicated contest". If it's not clear who is the aggressor, the one with the highest pool decides (this is the only difference with the Ghoul example). The aggressor goes first. Then, just as in the example above, you roll on your chosen combat skill. If you beat the hit threshold (+adjusments) you roll an instance of damage. In some cases this can still result in no damge. The damage is subtracted from Health. So combat is a special case.

[WatsonSE]

Thanks for the replies, which kind of explains that combat is not a contest as described on p59-60 (the example, chasing cultist).

I think that using the word "contest" when describing combat (in the sentence "Fights are slightly more complicated contests involving any of the following abilities...") is misleading, as we are actually looking at something that can be best described as a "simple test". The fact that there are also examples on p60 (like Scuffling vs Scuffling etc) is also misleading, as we are not talking about a contest as the one described on p59-60 (the Athletics vs Athletics contest where the cultist is chasing the Investigator).

Thanks for the clarification!

[Mulciber]

Not sure if I've misinterpreted something: we had a situation involving a 12 gauge double barreled shotgun. The player wanted to unload both barrels at close range so that's d6+1 (heavy weapon)+1(both barrels)+2(close range) damage. Then the players noticed that actually it would be more effective to discharge the barrels separately for d6+2+1 each, i.e minimum of 8 damage, possible 18 damage (assuming the target's still close next shot) as opposed to a minimum of 5 damage, possible maximum of 10. Or should that be d6+4 for each barrel? Rules imply (to our groups' reading) that d6+4 is yer lot for firing both at once.
I must stress that my chaps aren't usually number crunching rules lawyers but facing death, "Mr. Lafayette" was looking for any straws to grasp at.

[csmithadair]

Not sure if I've misinterpreted something: we had a situation involving a 12 gauge double barreled shotgun. The player wanted to unload both barrels at close range so that's d6+1 (heavy weapon)+1(both barrels)+2(close range) damage. Then the players noticed that actually it would be more effective to discharge the barrels separately for d6+2+1 each, i.e minimum of 8 damage, possible 18 damage (assuming the target's still close next shot) as opposed to a minimum of 5 damage, possible maximum of 10. Or should that be d6+4 for each barrel? Rules imply (to our groups' reading) that d6+4 is yer lot for firing both at once.
I must stress that my chaps aren't usually number crunching rules lawyers but facing death, "Mr. Lafayette" was looking for any straws to grasp at.

I think your interpretation is correct. The advantage to firing both barrels at once is that you only need to make one roll to hit. Firing in two separate rounds might cause more damage, if you're still around to fire and make your rolls.

The addition of only one extra point of damage does seem very low and not necessarily realistic, but keep in mind firing automatic weapons doesn't increase damage at all, just the chance to hit.

[tannjew]

May I translate your example of combat into German and post it on my blog and my rpg-wiki? I use both for my TAF campaign.

[PelgranePress]

May I translate your example of combat into German and post it on my blog and my rpg-wiki? I use both for my TAF campaign.

With pleasure.