Magic, when it doesn't involve summoning entities, also seems a little less alien given the fact that the Hyborian age is the predecessor of the Atlantean age which many Mythos writers tend to portray as a golden age of Magic.
Atlantis sank before the advent of the Hyborian Age (at least according to the Howardian canon); did you mean something else?
Thanks! I am not that into French, though...
So, if I understand well, for example if a character has Aplomb 3, and he would lose 5 points of Sanity, he could absorb up to 3 points? Or does he use one point of Aplomb to completely avoid the San loss?
It's the former. As you as you have Aplomb it subtracts from all SAN loss, costing no Aplomb, but you can spend them to avoid certain death etc, although I'm not sure how the mechanic works for that (reroll, fiat etc). _________________ Bring Back the Kult of Keepers!
"Gibber, gibber, meep", as the Ramones would have said had they read Lovecraft.
Thanks! I am not that into French, though...
So, if I understand well, for example if a character has Aplomb 3, and he would lose 5 points of Sanity, he could absorb up to 3 points? Or does he use one point of Aplomb to completely avoid the San loss?
It's the former. As you as you have Aplomb it subtracts from all SAN loss, costing no Aplomb, but you can spend them to avoid certain death etc, although I'm not sure how the mechanic works for that (reroll, fiat etc).
So in effect it works like armor does for damage. That's a good idea.
Magic, when it doesn't involve summoning entities, also seems a little less alien given the fact that the Hyborian age is the predecessor of the Atlantean age which many Mythos writers tend to portray as a golden age of Magic.
Atlantis sank before the advent of the Hyborian Age (at least according to the Howardian canon); did you mean something else?
Flip that, as in the Atlantean age is the Predecessor of the Hyborian age.
My contention however, is that not all magic in the Atlantean age led to awful madness. In fact, it can be argued that Atlantis used magic in the manner that we deploy modern science.
Its just that somewhere along the "learning curve," the Atlanteans broke through their quaint old-culturally limiting notions of what magic is (much in the same way Mythos writers predict we will eventually do with our science) and saw the Mythos Truth in all its hideous glory. Cue the cults of Cthulhu and Gol-Goroth, et al. Followed by the destruction of their society.
The Hyborian age are inheritors of the Atlanteans, although what got left over mostly were those ancient cults.
As for your quotations, your skewing the interpretation a little:
Orastes' own comment betrays the fact that because he was delving into "black magic" he was cast out of his order. "Black magic," as in there was a branch of magic that was in fact acceptable. I think the perfect case in point would be the very existence of Epimetrius the Sage.
Most of what Orastes is describing is what happens when a sorcerer gets at the Truth, the unmediated not culturally bounded Truth of the Mythos.
But Magic can be performed in a manner that doesn't result in the person going insane. The caveat to this is that its going to always be connected to an interpretive system that is flat out wrong (ie: not the Mythos Truth) or its effects will be minimal at best.
CoC has had a number of products that have presented an alternative form of mysticism/magic that (The Golden Dawn/Miskatonic University= Hermetic Sorcery, Secrets of Kenya/Masks of Nyarlathotep = African Tribal Magic, Secrets of Japan = Esoteric Buddhism) has stuck to that rule. Conan D20 does that to a degree as well in keeping with the spirit of the game (Warding, Hypnotism, and Divination aren't going to score you points on your Corruption index. But then again, such things could be considered "low magic" while summoning The Thing From the Black Pit is the PRECISELY the type of thing Orastes' is referencing.)
A pulpy Hyborian game can make room for a PC shaman or alchemist capable of performing such low deeds like astrological fortune telling, mixing a powder that irritates demons (Baneful Dust of Hermes Trismigestus anyone?), or dowsing for water with a stick.....you know, the type of things a respectable Sorcerer would laugh at.
I played a game of "Pulp Cthulhu" at GenCon way back in 2003 or so (the first GenCon in Indy). This was using Chaosium's "Pulp Cthulhu" rules which are still not published.
One of the big changes involved combat. To make it more pulp-y, I think they allowed investigators to Parry without declaring it. And maybe allowed a Parry and a Dodge in combat. It's been too many years, and I have seen much man as not meant to see (like, apparently, Chaosium's "Pulp Cthulhu" rules), so I can't really remember.
But anything that gives the investigators the edge in staying alive would help make it more pulp-y. Multiply defensive actions would certainly help in that regard. _________________ "He stumbled on things no mortal ought ever to know, and reached back through the years as no one ever should reach; and something came out of those years to engulf him." - H. P. Lovecraft, 'The Case of Charles Dexter Ward'
Magic, when it doesn't involve summoning entities, also seems a little less alien given the fact that the Hyborian age is the predecessor of the Atlantean age which many Mythos writers tend to portray as a golden age of Magic.
Atlantis sank before the advent of the Hyborian Age (at least according to the Howardian canon); did you mean something else?
Flip that, as in the Atlantean age is the Predecessor of the Hyborian age.
My contention however, is that not all magic in the Atlantean age led to awful madness. In fact, it can be argued that Atlantis used magic in the manner that we deploy modern science.
Its just that somewhere along the "learning curve," the Atlanteans broke through their quaint old-culturally limiting notions of what magic is (much in the same way Mythos writers predict we will eventually do with our science) and saw the Mythos Truth in all its hideous glory. Cue the cults of Cthulhu and Gol-Goroth, et al. Followed by the destruction of their society.
The Hyborian age are inheritors of the Atlanteans, although what got left over mostly were those ancient cults.
As for your quotations, your skewing the interpretation a little:
Orastes' own comment betrays the fact that because he was delving into "black magic" he was cast out of his order. "Black magic," as in there was a branch of magic that was in fact acceptable. I think the perfect case in point would be the very existence of Epimetrius the Sage.
Most of what Orastes is describing is what happens when a sorcerer gets at the Truth, the unmediated not culturally bounded Truth of the Mythos.
But Magic can be performed in a manner that doesn't result in the person going insane. The caveat to this is that its going to always be connected to an interpretive system that is flat out wrong (ie: not the Mythos Truth) or its effects will be minimal at best.
CoC has had a number of products that have presented an alternative form of mysticism/magic that (The Golden Dawn/Miskatonic University= Hermetic Sorcery, Secrets of Kenya/Masks of Nyarlathotep = African Tribal Magic, Secrets of Japan = Esoteric Buddhism) has stuck to that rule. Conan D20 does that to a degree as well in keeping with the spirit of the game (Warding, Hypnotism, and Divination aren't going to score you points on your Corruption index. But then again, such things could be considered "low magic" while summoning The Thing From the Black Pit is the PRECISELY the type of thing Orastes' is referencing.)
A pulpy Hyborian game can make room for a PC shaman or alchemist capable of performing such low deeds like astrological fortune telling, mixing a powder that irritates demons (Baneful Dust of Hermes Trismigestus anyone?), or dowsing for water with a stick.....you know, the type of things a respectable Sorcerer would laugh at.
I didn't meant that all magic should lead to madness. There are plenty of examples in Cthulhu Dark Ages and even in the core CoC book, of spells which do not cost any sanity to cast. But these would IMO be the minority. Anything more than that and you leave the realm of Sword & Sorcery, at least as it's described in Howard's yarns.
The "defensive blasts" of d20 Conan and many other powerful effects in the game which have 0 cost in Corruption, and no cost in sanity, IMO fly in the face of canon Howard tales.
In my game I have a sorcerer which has learnt a few Mythos spells; some of them are not "damaging", some of them are, and he is very careful to use them.
Now, the idea was to introduce another stat, call it Nerve, Guts, Self-confidence, Composure or whatever, which could "filter" the sanity loss in the case of pulp adventures. I think I will use POW/2 (round down) as a threshold, much like "mental armor". This should make sorcerers prone to deal even with horrific entities and spells, and slow down their descent into madness. And make other characters (like Conan) react to sanity-blasting events with more than a cry and a faint
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