Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm Post subject: Cthulhu Invictus: initial impression
I finished my initial read of CTHULHU INVICTUS, and I have to say that
though I like it a lot, it is most assuredly not quite what I expected.
Though there is quite a lot of good historical information presented (from
what little I know of Roman times, which is more than most but frankly not
much), it seems that they approached Roman times with a much more
fantasy/sword and sorcery flavor. This is not a bad thing, but as a fair
warning for those bothered by such things, they decided to map mythos
threats onto some real-life historical situations and places in a manner that
some might find excessive (no spoilers). At first, this did bother me, but
when I stopped thinking of CI as a historical RPG and began to think of it
in terms of being a fantasy/horror RPG, the choices they made made a bit
more sense. CI, ultimately, has about as much in common with real-live
Roman history as LEGEND OF THE FIVE RINGS has with real-live Japanese
history, and upon further reflection if you remove the Mythos as a threat
lurking in every dark alley & disused forest lane, CI would still stand up as
a fantasy RPG dealing with the Roman era (much better than L5R would
divorced from the fantasy Japan of Rokugan).
(Let me state that I do not own nor have read CTHULHU: DARK AGES,
so I don't know if CI's mood is compatible with C:DAs)
As has become my habit of late, I bought it as a PDF, and as with my other
purchases, had I bought it as a fully printed book I wouldn't have thought
it worth the cover price, but as a PDF it is extremely cost effective.
I honestly don't know if I'll ever use any of it directly, but it was an interesting
read and does have an interesting take on the Mythos in a historical setting.
Joined: Jun 05, 2003 Posts: 1492 Location: Greensboro, NC
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:51 pm Post subject:
Hey! Thanks for the feedback on the book.
If you don't mind me asking, what would you have preferred to see?
I really do wish I had remembered to include an introduction where I stated that I intended this to be a tool-kit where the reader takes bits and pieces of history where the Mythos is infused, rather than feel compelled to view everything as a whole. But yes, there is a more sword-and-sandal feel to it, seeing as Tierney's and Howard's works were big influences. _________________ Lovecraft themed gear and other stuff!
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If you don't mind me asking, what would you have preferred to see?
I think I was expecting it to hew a little bit more toward real-life history,
an expectation influenced a bit by some of what I had heard about the
original monograph (which I have never read either).
But, as I pointed out in the other discussion thread, it comes out reminding
me very much of the old MAN, MYTH & MAGIC RPG, and I like that very
much. After all, one of the most enjoyable aspects of playing CoC (for me)
is to get into the mindset of the time that a given game is set in, and in
Roman times the world truly was full of magic and monsters from the POV
of the average Roman.
cjbowser wrote:
I really do wish I had remembered to include an introduction where I stated that I intended this to be a tool-kit where the reader takes bits and pieces of history where the Mythos is infused, rather than feel compelled to view everything as a whole. But yes, there is a more sword-and-sandal feel to it, seeing as Tierney's and Howard's works were big influences.
Anything that gets a bit more Howard into the CoC eye is alright in my
book: his essential grasp of HPL's nihilism is often obscured by the overt
action/adventure of his stories, and your use of his ideas is spot on.
Joined: Jun 05, 2003 Posts: 1492 Location: Greensboro, NC
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:23 pm Post subject:
MikeC wrote:
I think I was expecting it to hew a little bit more toward real-life history,
an expectation influenced a bit by some of what I had heard about the
original monograph (which I have never read either).
That's a fair statement. One of the biggest suggestions/requests/complaints regarding the monograph was "not enough mythos!!!". Yup. You can't win. One thing I tried to do when I mixed mythos and history was to create a situation where the mythos could be dropped easily but leave the history in tact. I think I succeeded in some places better than others, but it was a fun experiment.
MikeC wrote:
But, as I pointed out in the other discussion thread, it comes out reminding
me very much of the old MAN, MYTH & MAGIC RPG, and I like that very
much. After all, one of the most enjoyable aspects of playing CoC (for me)
is to get into the mindset of the time that a given game is set in, and in
Roman times the world truly was full of magic and monsters from the POV
of the average Roman.
Thanks!. I'm not familiar with the title, but I'll take this as a compliment.
MikeC wrote:
Anything that gets a bit more Howard into the CoC eye is alright in my
book: his essential grasp of HPL's nihilism is often obscured by the overt
action/adventure of his stories, and your use of his ideas is spot on.
Joined: Dec 18, 2002 Posts: 6365 Location: Innsmouth House
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:46 pm Post subject:
I have fond memories of playing Man, Myth & Magic back in the day. A quick recollection of a game of it I recall.
Our brave party was wandering through the grandeur of the city that was Rome, looking for adventure worthy of our ambitions. The GM pointed out that a number of paper bills had been posted in the local area - hinting that they may contain information about possible quests.
We then pointed out that none of our party had taken literacy, so couldn't read a word and blithely passed them by...
<zip forward>
- and we return having acquired some "magical spectacles" (by GM fiat/mini-adventure) that allowed us to decipher the strange markings on the paper. Adventure was ours! There were rumours of a Dragon outside of the city, that if slain and returned would bring a handsome reward. So off we set...
A dragon in Rome, I mean, really.
We eventually find the possible location of this mythical beast (a set of ruins among sand and gravel).
No sight of the "beast" anywhere, but my friend Stuart's character is an Egyptian and remembers he gets a +5% combat bonus for being on sand, so he goes and stands on a pile of it "just in case".
Bad move.
- as the jaws of the Tyrannosaurus Rex emerge from the sand beneath the Egyptian's feet and he ends up only half the man he was...
The rest of us bravely run away, screaming, as fast as our latin legs would carry us.
The GM is kind and allows us one 'parting shot' against the very real, very deadly "dragon". My character turns while running hell-for-leather and lets loose a single hasty arrow.
Now one of the interesting things about Man, Myth & Magic is that if you roll 100% you automatically kill whatever you're in combat with. Yes, you guessed it.
Bingo! The William Tell shot.
Cutting an already long story somewhat shorter. We slice and dice the T-Rex and take it back triumphantly to Rome, telling of our "brave and heroic" battle with the beast and making out like bandits selling an awful lot of "dragon steak" to the nobles of Rome.
Ahhh, good times!
Thus ends my completely off-tangent and unwarranted character story imposed on you all.
As for Cthulhu Invictus I'm looking forward to getting it. I certainly don't mind a little "sword & sandals" epic (obviously). We're fortunate that if we want to make it more historically accurate there's a lot of local expertise to call on.
I think I was expecting it to hew a little bit more toward real-life history,
an expectation influenced a bit by some of what I had heard about the
original monograph (which I have never read either).
That's a fair statement. One of the biggest suggestions/requests/complaints regarding the monograph was "not enough mythos!!!". Yup. You can't win. One thing I tried to do when I mixed mythos and history was to create a situation where the mythos could be dropped easily but leave the history in tact. I think I succeeded in some places better than others, but it was a fun experiment.
Overall I think you did a good job of matching the Mythos with real-life
history, and of creating period-appropriate monsters. And your notes on
the ways that a Roman would regain SAN were very good and thought
provoking.
And, even if there isn't a specific chapter on the Roman mindset, simply
by detailing their society and history you managed to highlight what I think
is the salient feature of the Roman mind: an unquestioning acceptance
that the Roman way is the RIGHT way. Nowhere is this more clear than in
Julius Ceaser's diaries of his Gaulic campaign, where he blithely mapped
the local Celtic gods one-for-one to the Roman ones, and you work that
attitude in quite deftly. Even if, in hindsight, they were the ultimate in
syncretic cultures, even when they stole things whole from a conquered
people they always, in their minds, kept credit for themselves. Even if
you don't come out and say it, that knowledge obviously informed your
writing, so I can only quibble with you not spoon feeding it to GMs not so
familiar with them. Which is hardly a negative.
As quite a bit of the material from CI seems drawn from R.L. Tierney's stories, it would be great if Chaosium would reissue their collection of his stories. I do feel like I am missing something with some of the references in CI. Does Tierney use traditional mythological creatures, like centaurs and djinn, in his writing?
Joined: Jun 05, 2003 Posts: 1492 Location: Greensboro, NC
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:35 pm Post subject:
Mysterioso wrote:
Does Tierney use traditional mythological creatures, like centaurs and djinn, in his writing?
Nope. Those are included to give sword and sandal players something to knock around. However, there aren't many direct references to Tierney's works. Instead, his style of story help provide some of the flavor for the book.
BTW, you mentioned about Britian, and I apologize, but I completely forgot about an upcoming Worlds of Cthulhu article I wrote that details many of REH's locations from the Bran Mak Morn stories.... That might help you out some. _________________ Lovecraft themed gear and other stuff!
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Joined: Feb 27, 2004 Posts: 1151 Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:03 pm Post subject:
PoC wrote:
There were rumours of a Dragon outside of the city, that if slain and returned would bring a handsome reward. So off we set...
Heh, I remember playing that scenario too ... I recall we realised straight away we couldn't fight it and ended up luring it out onto a bridge, which then collapsed under its weight. Drowned dragon ...
There was another scenario where we ended up on the west coast of Ireland for some reason. I remember meeting this Chinese tea merchant, of whom we were all really suspicious because he seemed so out of place. After a long spell of questioning him, following him etc, the GM was forced to admit "Look, he's just a random encounter. Leave him alone and get on with the game!"
Sorry for straying from the point... I have ordered Invictus and look forward to seeing it in its non-Monograph incarnation!
There were rumours of a Dragon outside of the city, that if slain and returned would bring a handsome reward. So off we set...
Heh, I remember playing that scenario too ... I recall we realised straight away we couldn't fight it and ended up luring it out onto a bridge, which then collapsed under its weight. Drowned dragon ...
There was another scenario where we ended up on the west coast of Ireland for some reason. I remember meeting this Chinese tea merchant, of whom we were all really suspicious because he seemed so out of place. After a long spell of questioning him, following him etc, the GM was forced to admit "Look, he's just a random encounter. Leave him alone and get on with the game!"
Sounds like the module NEWGRANGE REACTIVATED, which is set in
Hibernia, features Cuchulain as a significant NPC and was the first
inkling I had that MM&M wasn't as strictly historical as advertised when
it turned out there was a flying saucer buried under Newgrange.
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One thing I tried to do when I mixed mythos and history was to create a situation where the mythos could be dropped easily but leave the history in tact. I think I succeeded in some places better than others, but it was a fun experiment.
