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Yog-Sothoth :: View topic - Age of Cthulhu 2: Madness in London Town
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Age of Cthulhu 2: Madness in London Town
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Pookie
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WinstonP wrote:
HomoLupusDomesticus wrote:
OMG Pookie, you absolutely butchered this book!


I don't think he butchered the book. If anything it was more of a dissection; he took the thing apart to show its strengths and to highlight flaws. It wasn't just an bludgeoning- there were positive comments- but I did detect a certain level of frustration with the quality of the product in certain important areas.


I hold my hands up here -- I have to admit to feeling frustrated with some aspects and the quality of Madness of London Town. No point in elaborating upon what aspects, though...
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woodnoggin
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Karloff wrote:
I have to laugh. To think, I kicked this off by wondering whether they'd taken the military connection into account. Never in my wildest dreams did I think they'd misplace Scotland! Does this mean feral haggis are now preying on Welsh sheep?


I thought the objection was to the use of the word 'glen' to describe Salisbury plain, rather than misplacing Scotland.
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Pookie
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fojo wrote:
Honestly and with the biggest respect, GBSteve, it is not our duty to correct their mistakes.

Once you have published a book you have to be prepared to receive criticism (and probably not in a considered way much of the time, sadly, but it is how things work).

Plus, if they have not taken into account the 'comments' that appeared about Luxor in the biggest Cthulhu forum in the world...

(And misplacing Scotland is not a "concern" of a "small bunch of partisans", it is a hell of a mistake! and worse, so EASILY corrected.)


Technically, the author does not state that Scotland has been moved. Merely infer it by using the word "glen" in the wrong context.
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Pookie
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GBSteve wrote:
Goodman Games are one of the bigger small gaming companies and have been doing well in the D&D arena for some years, as a result they probably got good sales of their CoC efforts and the whining of a small bunch of partisans is probably not going to have much of an effect, one way or another.

That said, if someone from the CoC community where to approach them calmly then perhaps they might say something about our concerns.

Our maybe Pookie can produce an errata for those who have been put off by his review.


Well, there is an interesting possibility. Is there the demand for such a document?
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goodmangames
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

Everything Goodman Games publishes is playtested extensively. Our primary focus is always to publish adventures that produce fun gaming experiences.

For those of you who read adventures, but do not play them, I'll provide the same answer which I've provided to the Acaeum collector crowd (another vocal, highly critical site focused on our Dungeon Crawl Classics modules): if you don't actually play adventure modules, these adventures may not be meant for you. Please note that Pookie's review is not a playtest review.

For those of you who enjoy playing the game, I suspect you will have a lot of fun with Madness in Londontown, and find that the "errors" identified in this thread (some correctly and others incorrectly) will have little to no impact on your play experience.

Here is a review that demonstrates the difference between reading and playing:

http://rpg.geekdo.com/thread/434099

Constructive commentary is of course always appreciated, though our focus is always on playing the game. Our Age of Cthulhu authors, artists, and editors have all been playing the game for decades.

Enjoy,
Joseph Goodman
Goodman Games
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fojo
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Mr. Goodman, I for myself find only arrogance in your post.

I personally think that the Respect for the reality where other people Actually Live and the Geography and History of their Countries is (or Should be) much more Important than the Fun Results of your scenario.


As I am just one of thousands of aficionados, this is probably not of any importance to you anyway.

P.S.- Would you be so kind as to discover to us which of the mistakes found in this forum have been "incorrectly" identified as such?
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Karloff
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ goodmangames

While I won't go as far as Fojo, I don't much care for the heavy-handed attempt to dismiss a less than stellar review from Pookie.

I was unaware that people who read modules are somehow less worthy than those who play them - which does seem to be the gist of your post.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joseph's post seemed a point of view, fairly put.

From experience, there can be a significant difference between reading a roleplaying scenario and actually playing it (things that appear large issues on reading are not in actual play, and vice versa.)

For factual issues, Pookie's idea may be a good one, a sort of mini glossary for those who would like things described a little closer to the real world - that could satisfy everyone: those who mind and those who don't (and could be rather fun to do)! Smile

I think one of the important things Goodman Games is doing is publishing these short-form scenarios and getting them out there far and wide. If people who haven't played Call of Cthulhu (but perhaps enjoyed some of Goodman's Dungeon Crawl Classics) pick it up, it's yet another potential gateway to more CoC materials by a (now) whole variety of publishers.

I always think of Cthulhu gaming as a fairly broad church and as long as people are having fun, then that's the best accolade there can be.

Personally, I'm looking forward to Age of Cthulhu III, set in Russia. Cthulhu Fhtagn

Paul
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twilight
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pookie both enlightens me and frightens me.

I found his review of "Londontown" to be spot on. Sadly, this was only after I bought a copy. I won't be buying anything from Goodman Games unless Pookie gives them the all clear (no pressure!).

The reason he frightens me is that I have my own products out soon-ish and as i know I have a tendency to ramble am a little worried that his ire may be directed my way soon enough (gulp!)

I don't think this is the authors fault. We all write scenarios which take our players to countries we've never been to. I'm sure we've all, wittingly or unwittingly, made similar errors. perhaps less glaring ones to be sure but still...
It is the fault of the editor/line editor. You can't check something for print without checking its authenticity. (I gulp again as I realise I am my own editor for Realms of Splendour & Cthulhu Adventus)

All this said and done, there's no reason to hamper Goodman's attempts to produce these items. I, for one, have missed the one-night-scenario that Chaosium seem strangely shy of.

Dont be put off Mr. Goodman. I didn't see your post as arrogant but an attempt to defend your product using the restrictive language of the written word which doesn't really allow for nuance, tone or emphasis.
Maybe writing 'Pulp Cthulhu' scenarios?
Or hiring Britons to check the facts (ahem... I'm available)
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Karloff
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
am a little worried that his ire may be directed my way soon


*chuckle*

I wouldn't panic. Pookie's fair - and relatively kind, by reviewer's standards. Either you'll do well out of it or you'll get a little singed - and few of us could escape a whipping, were we dealt with as we deserved.

TBH. PoC is a good deal nicer than I'd ever be. Wink
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goodmangames
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Karloff wrote:
While I won't go as far as Fojo, I don't much care for the heavy-handed attempt to dismiss a less than stellar review from Pookie.


Nothing heavy-handed here; it's empirical experience. Many years ago, Pookie gave Dungeon Crawl Classics #1: Idylls of the Rat King one of its most lackluster reviews. 63 DCC modules later, the series is still extremely popular. That tells me something...
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chicklewis
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't find Goodman's response arrogant, nor is it heavy handed.

I read it as simply a policy statement: - - Historical accuracy and getting the details right are just NOT important to them.

This makes perfect sense, and explains a lot about their two CoC releases.

Chick
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Pookie
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

goodmangames wrote:
Karloff wrote:
While I won't go as far as Fojo, I don't much care for the heavy-handed attempt to dismiss a less than stellar review from Pookie.


Nothing heavy-handed here; it's empirical experience. Many years ago, Pookie gave Dungeon Crawl Classics #1: Idylls of the Rat King one of its most lackluster reviews. 63 DCC modules later, the series is still extremely popular. That tells me something...


I would refute your empirical evidence by making two points.

First, Dungeon Crawl Classics #1: Idylls of the Rat King (http://www.ogrecave.com/reviews/dcc1_ratking.shtml) was not the first in the line that I reviewed. It was written some months after my review of Dungeon Crawl Classics #11: The Dragonfiend Pact (http://www.ogrecave.com/reviews/dcc11_dragonfiend.shtml), which I think you will find was far more favourable a review and what actually made me go back and review the first title in the Dungeon Crawl Classics line.

In a sense I reviewed them backwards, but there is a marked difference in quality between the first entry in the line and the eleventh. Further, as far as I am aware I was not damning the whole line based on the two reviews.

My second point is, are you taking my reviews of DragonMech and EtherScope, both titles which you have published, into account? Surely you should be basing your reaction to my reviews not on just two reviews of your products, but all of them?
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jasonw1239
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it interesting that the link that Joseph Goodman posted to Chad's review supports many of Pookie's points about the scenario.
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rylehNC
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PoC wrote:
Personally, I'm looking forward to Age of Cthulhu III, set in Russia. Cthulhu Fhtagn


Is this from the back cover? Cool.
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